[zed0077]

Hi all,
Just had a quote from Charged EV on behalf of EO, which i've pasted below. It seems quite expensive although I was aware that I would be paying for the Earth rod in the hard ground.
Does this price seem normal? or are there bits they have quoted me and shouldn't have?

I might look at other home chargers now

We've completed your image assessment and have some findings to discuss with you.


Quote

Your installation is non-standard and requires the following additions.

Items	Price	Quantity
Unit choice Octopus EV Customer Offer (Universal)	£369	1
Extra meter of 6mm cable per meter	£18.00
Matt:E DC Fault Protection Device	£100.00	1
Earth Rod in hard ground	£78.00
Earth Rod in extra hard ground	£120.00
Additional Earth Rod in soft ground	£42.00
Extra Internal trunking (3 Meters)	£24.00
Hours labor per engineer	£24.00
Data Cable	£12.00
CT Clamp for Solar	£36.00
Total	£469

Why do I need the Matt:E device?

You're likely to have some conductive metal items in the vicinity of your parking area such as light fitting, gas pipe, street lamp post or water tap. So we'll need to install a Matt:E device to ensure your installation mitigates simultaneous touch risk. Also, a traditional earth rod installation can typically be difficult to achieve and sometimes require multiple rods- so we'll always opt to install this device to keep costs down and the installation neat and tidy.

Please note, if we do not need to use the device on-site then we will refund you the £100 cost as soon as we are notified by the Installer.

 

[Tandy0]

Edti: Just realised they aren't charging for most of the nonsense mentioned. Is the subsidy already deducted?

 

[mikegs]

This is the problem that has been noted before on here:

You're likely to have some conductive metal items in the vicinity of your parking area such as light fitting, gas pipe, street lamp post or water tap.

The earth rod solution doesn't cover these usually, so in the event of a fault, touching one while standing on the drive could be fatal.
The MattE solves that problem.

That looks a good price as I've seen them advertised for about £150 retail.

My only concern is the extra running costs - it will be using a small amount for electronics and contactor but I haven't found how much yet.

 

[dk6780]

As @Tandy0 says, they are just charging for the basic EO unit and a Matt:E device, the need for which they have explained. As discussed on other threads, the Matt:E device is not a panacea for all circumstances and personally I prefer to remain with a TT connection and a good Earth rod. Is there a reason why an Earth rod cannot be fitted in your installation?

The Matt:E basic device is £100+VAT at CEF but interestingly only comes with a 2 year guarantee - I wonder who makes this up to the 3 years required by OLEV for the grant? Presumably the installer. In the installation instructions it says that the more expensive version with an RCBO has a 3 year guarantee.

Like @mikegs I cannot find anything about the energy consumption of the device (it has permenantly engaged contactors) - it isn't on the data sheet either.

 

[dk6780]

I got a reply today:

Thank you for the Matt:E enquiry, it has 12VA Power consumption for the Single Phase product combined.

Hope this helps.

Kind Regards

Jim Rugg
EV Technical and Specifications Manager

Replenishh
Your Smart EV Solution

So about a 1/4 kWh a day. A small price for safety, and as @donald would say, the energy isn't wasted if theheat is in the house ....

 

[zed0077]

Edti: Just realised they aren't charging for most of the nonsense mentioned. Is the subsidy already deducted?

Hi, I honestly don't know, it was quite confusing

As @Tandy0 says, they are just charging for the basic EO unit and a Matt:E device, the need for which they have explained. As discussed on other threads, the Matt:E device is not a panacea for all circumstances and personally I prefer to remain with a TT connection and a good Earth rod. Is there a reason why an Earth rod cannot be fitted in your installation?

The Matt:E basic device is £100+VAT at CEF but interestingly only comes with a 2 year guarantee - I wonder who makes this up to the 3 years required by OLEV for the grant? Presumably the installer. In the installation instructions it says that the more expensive version with an RCBO has a 3 year guarantee.

Like @mikegs I cannot find anything about the energy consumption of the device (it has permenantly engaged contactors) - it isn't on the data sheet either.

I think they should be able to fit the earth rod on the hard ground. My whole garden has slabs
I've emailed them to make sure the cost as I was getting confused but I think you all are correct and quote is just for the home charger and the Matt:E

Would it just be better to go with the Matt:E instead of the earth rod then?

 

[mikegs]

So about a 1/4 kWh a day. A small price for safety,

!2VA. Assuming that is near enough 12W that comes to over 100kWh a year ... about £15. For protection against a very unlikely event I'm not sure that's good value.
Hopefully they will get that power down over time - TVs, etc, have got standby to less than 0.5W, so that's a target.

the energy isn't wasted if theheat is in the house ....

Only true in winter. Half the year it is a waste.

 

[zed0077]

In the mean time I was looking at purchasing this 13a extension lead so I can charge at home until I get the charger installed. These both have been mentioned in the forum before

Masterplug Pro-XT Weatherproof Trailing Socket High Visibility Cable - 10m 13A | Wickes.co.uk

Masterplug Pro-XT Weatherproof Trailing Socket High Visibility Cable - 10m 13A

www.wickes.co.uk

Or there's which is £34

13A weatherproof extension lead (compatible with all EVs)

High quality 13A weatherproof outdoor waterproof extension leads heavy duty 1.5mm H07RN-F rubber cable. RCD option. IP66. Designed specifically to overcome the issue created by the extra large plug fitted to BMW, Nissan and Jaguar chargers. 2m, 5m, 10m, 15m, 20m and 25m lengths. Charging...

www.toughleads.co.uk

Any other recommendations or would the one from Wickes for £20 do the job for now?

 

[Danny8oy]

I found they were definitely £100+ more expensive. I had a Pod-Point fitted first but have now gone to Ohme as it works best with agile and I believe for new installs they are at £360. Also, pp doesn’t require an earth rod.

 

[dk6780]

Only true in winter. Half the year it is a waste.

You clearly haven't met my Wife.

 

[dk6780]

In the mean time I was looking at purchasing this 13a extension lead so I can charge at home until I get the charger installed. These both have been mentioned in the forum before

Masterplug Pro-XT Weatherproof Trailing Socket High Visibility Cable - 10m 13A | Wickes.co.uk

Masterplug Pro-XT Weatherproof Trailing Socket High Visibility Cable - 10m 13A

www.wickes.co.uk

Or there's which is £34

13A weatherproof extension lead (compatible with all EVs)

High quality 13A weatherproof outdoor waterproof extension leads heavy duty 1.5mm H07RN-F rubber cable. RCD option. IP66. Designed specifically to overcome the issue created by the extra large plug fitted to BMW, Nissan and Jaguar chargers. 2m, 5m, 10m, 15m, 20m and 25m lengths. Charging...

www.toughleads.co.uk

Any other recommendations or would the one from Wickes for £20 do the job for now?

Being anal I have to point out that the manual specifically prohibits the use of extension leads with portable EVSE and indeed the cable before the "brick" has to be 30cm long at most. Moving back to reality:

I do love the term "IP rated". That must mean that it is Ok then? Strictly that depends what for - the Masterplug is "IP54 - dust protected, splash proof" according to their website which means that you should not let it get wet and bring it in when it rains although if you mount it on a wall it will accept some splashes. Don't leave the socket on the ground. It will cope with the current.

In the case of the ToughLeads one you are getting a better product - the cable is better and the socket is IP66 rated which is totally dustproof and protected against powerful waterjets or (splashing) from rough seas - so a lot more waterproof but not rated for submersion, so don't leave it in a deep puddle. This is a better product but still is best kept wall mounted off of the floor.

Do you need something particularly visible? I made my own version using a similar socket to the Toughleads one, similar "arctic" cabling but in orange and 2.5mm^2 section as it is around 10m long and used in a semi-public area at work.

 

[dk6780]

Also, pp doesn’t require an earth rod.

As long as the distance from the consumer unit to the PodPoint isn't too far, in which case they do.

 

[zed0077]

Being anal I have to point out that the manual specifically prohibits the use of extension leads with portable EVSE and indeed the cable before the "brick" has to be 30cm long at most. Moving back to reality:

I do love the term "IP rated". That must mean that it is Ok then? Strictly that depends what for - the Masterplug is "IP54 - dust protected, splash proof" according to their website which means that you should not let it get wet and bring it in when it rains although if you mount it on a wall it will accept some splashes. Don't leave the socket on the ground. It will cope with the current.

In the case of the ToughLeads one you are getting a better product - the cable is better and the socket is IP66 rated which is totally dustproof and protected against powerful waterjets or (splashing) from rough seas - so a lot more waterproof but not rated for submersion, so don't leave it in a deep puddle. This is a better product but still is best kept wall mounted off of the floor.

Do you need something particularly visible? I made my own version using a similar socket to the Toughleads one, similar "arctic" cabling but in orange and 2.5mm^2 section as it is around 10m long and used in a semi-public area at work.

I should have put a bit more thought into this earlier. The granny cable isn't long enough so one of the option was to have an extension lead from inside of the house to outside, it will only be in my garden. Will have to leave the window open a bit for the time i'm charging. The chap from Nissan said it will be better to fit a socket outside instead. Just thinking is it worth the hassle in getting that done if i'm getting a charger installed hopefully within the next 4-6 weeks

 

[dk6780]

Just thinking is it worth the hassle in getting that done if i'm getting a charger installed hopefully within the next 4-6 weeks

An outside socket is often a worthwhile investment as it is amazing how often having power outside is useful. However, if you aren't competent to DIY or the layout of your existing wiring isn't convenient you might have to pay more than £100 for one and the lower cost option of an extension lead may be more attractive.
What electricity tarrif are you on and do you have a convenient public charging option available? If yes to the latter it may cost significantly more than a time of use tarrif like Octopus Go, but if you are on a single rate tarrif and it is say a Polar charger it may be similar. You need to balance the cost and convenience. For me when I was in your position there was no alternative, but today there is and I could cope without a home charge point at an additional cost of about £10/week and 10 minutes per day. Either of those for just 4 weeks would drive me to fit an outside socket in a convenient place.

 

[zed0077]

An outside socket is often a worthwhile investment as it is amazing how often having power outside is useful. However, if you aren't competent to DIY or the layout of your existing wiring isn't convenient you might have to pay more than £100 for one and the lower cost option of an extension lead may be more attractive.
What electricity tarrif are you on and do you have a convenient public charging option available? If yes to the latter it may cost significantly more than a time of use tarrif like Octopus Go, but if you are on a single rate tarrif and it is say a Polar charger it may be similar. You need to balance the cost and convenience. For me when I was in your position there was no alternative, but today there is and I could cope without a home charge point at an additional cost of about £10/week and 10 minutes per day. Either of those for just 4 weeks would drive me to fit an outside socket in a convenient place.

Currently with SSE and already have SMETS2 meters. Moving date to Octopus is next Sunday 22/03/20
There's a few rapid chargers within a couple of miles from my house, which is about 0.29/kwh that's around £5 to top it up to 80%

 

[Danny8oy]

As long as the distance from the consumer unit to the PodPoint isn't too far, in which case they do.

I don’t know what the max distance is mine is/was 20m run.

 

[zed0077]

Just had a call earlier from ChargedEV I think its called, quite disappointed that although they can do the installation in 3 weeks they said the price has gone up due to a grant being reduced from 1st April
New price looks around £619

Quick question
1. is there a big advantage getting an eo mini rather than something like charge master or pod point?
if not then i'm thinking if i can get pod point or similar before 1st April i'll avoid paying more

 

[dk6780]

Moving date to Octopus is next Sunday 22/03/20
There's a few rapid chargers within a couple of miles from my house, which is about 0.29/kwh that's around £5 to top it up to 80%

Or around £0.80 on the same basis with Go from Sunday. Quite a bit, but it depends how often you'll need that amount of charging.

All charge points will have gone up in price, and the basic features of Chargemaster and PodPoint mean that they will not support Go unless your car has suitable timers.

 

[zed0077]

I'm not sure whats the best way forward. We do around 70-80 miles a week. I was thinking for short term as you mentioned before I could get a 13a socket installed outside rather than using an extension lead. I guess that would take around 13-14 hours to charge with the granny charger? is that regardless whether its 3.3 or 6.6 charger?

I just feel £620 is a lot of money right now

 

[dk6780]

A "granny" charger will only charge at around 2kW so that sounds about right, and if you need more than 8 kWh/day then you'll be buying some at the higher rate (around 14p/kWh depending on where you are). If you charge every day then you should have no problem as typically 8 kWh is about 30 miles, and if you are only doing 70 - 80 miles/week it should work. Note that in theory charging at the slow rate is slightly less efficient but allegedly better for the battery.
Do you have a garage? If so a lot of people plug their "granny" charger in inside the garage and poke the the lead under the door.
I suspect that installation prices will fall significantly over the next few months, so waiting may well be sensible. Alternatively consider an alternate Level 2 installation of the Ohme lead to a 32Amp IEE plug (also available from Octopus). Strictly not as safe, but done on an Earth rod basis similar in practice and likely to be a lot less from a local Sparky not registered for OLEV. And it fully covers Agile and can be taken with you if you move house etc.