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Kia Soul EV 2020
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Can they first sort out their app and reliability? Then and only then start charging "arm and leg".... :unsure:
 

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Will they have a 50kW and a 150kW charger so you can choose what is best for your car, or simply 2 x 50kW or 2 x 150kW so you get what's there regardless of your need?
 

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Renault Zoe ZE50 GT-Line Rapid Charge
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Will they have a 50kW and a 150kW charger so you can choose what is best for your car, or simply 2 x 50kW or 2 x 150kW so you get what's there regardless of your need?
AFAIK, BP at Rugby Services will have 2x 150kW only
 

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Audi e-tron 50
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It didn't dawn on me until a month-or-so after getting my e-tron 50 that there's more to the car than just range. Actually, efficiency is possibly more important. So, simplistically, to do 400 miles with a 4 mi/kWh Mini it charges for 2 hours on 50kW chargers while my Audi will charge for at least 40 minutes longer. But 50 kW is all a Mini will take while the e-tron can take around 120 kW.
This makes these 150 kW chargers much more attractive to me and I'll pay the premium for the speed - I don't use them that often after all.
I can see how it frustrates drivers of more efficient cars... but, in the grand scheme of things, if you don't use them very often, it's not a lot of money.
 

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The way pricing is going, the more I think getting a car with long range is increasingly important. I used to think it didn’t matter so much, because after 2 or 3 hours of driving you’re happy to take a break anyway so may as well charge when you do. But the way it’s going, EVs aren’t going to be any cheaper to run on rapid charging than ICE vehicles are. Unless your car has enough range that you can go a long way on the cheap overnight charging you did at home before setting off on your journey.
 

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Audi e-tron 50
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35% price increase for plus members.
20% for instant
17,5% for contactless
It's not going in the right direction.
If this leads to more rapid chargers, then it is going in the right direction. Surely the vast majority of us use destination chargers, and typically our home ones, for the vast majority of the time. Speaking personally (I can only speak personally), I only use rapids on maybe four journeys a year. I will pay a premium for the convenience of more rapids around the country for the few times I use them. It only amounts to a few quid.
 

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If this leads to more rapid chargers, then it is going in the right direction. Surely the vast majority of us use destination chargers, and typically our home ones, for the vast majority of the time. Speaking personally (I can only speak personally), I only use rapids on maybe four journeys a year. I will pay a premium for the convenience of more rapids around the country for the few times I use them. It only amounts to a few quid.
Sure, for people who only use rapids on maybe four journeys a year. I use rapids on maybe four journeys a month (multiple times, each time), it is not going in the right direction for me.

With the way the pricing of rapids is going, it will likely be more cost effective for me to spend a bit more money to get my next EV so it has longer range, in order to cut out as much rapid charging as I can. But that means I’ll buy a car with a bigger battery than I otherwise would have, and so will do more harm to the planet as a result. Expensive rapid charging = cars with bigger, less environmentally friendly batteries being popular.
 

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Ioniq 38kwh 2020
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Seems a bit odd to differentiate the pricing based on the type of charger rather than the rate of charge. My Ioniq has no advantage whatsoever at a 150kW charger! If all the 50kW chargers are going to be replaced with these then this is quite an increase. I've haven't used Polar yet, definitely won't for the foreseeable future.
But this is the kind of elephant in the room with rapid chargers, very expensive to install and I can't see how they will ever cover their costs even at these prices.
 

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2017 Renault Zoe R90 Signature Nav
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The way pricing is going, the more I think getting a car with long range is increasingly important. I used to think it didn’t matter so much, because after 2 or 3 hours of driving you’re happy to take a break anyway so may as well charge when you do. But the way it’s going, EVs aren’t going to be any cheaper to run on rapid charging than ICE vehicles are. Unless your car has enough range that you can go a long way on the cheap overnight charging you did at home before setting off on your journey.
I strongly believe that this is exactly the biggest challenge with a lot of people becoming EV drivers. The ICE vehicle offer much more convenience for the average person. Nobody even thinking about jumping in the car and driving 500 miles away. With the EV is a different story as we know. You need to plan way ahead and you still cannot be 100% sure that the charger you are aiming for will be working or available. Not to mention that if you are not on a motorway service station there is not a lot you can do till you are waiting to charge if you are away from home.
 

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VW eGolf
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The way pricing is going, the more I think getting a car with long range is increasingly important. I used to think it didn’t matter so much, because after 2 or 3 hours of driving you’re happy to take a break anyway so may as well charge when you do. But the way it’s going, EVs aren’t going to be any cheaper to run on rapid charging than ICE vehicles are. Unless your car has enough range that you can go a long way on the cheap overnight charging you did at home before setting off on your journey.
Depends how it stacks up for you but on something like a Kona it’s £4000 to go from 39kwh to 64kwh battery at the same spec. At 42p rates (assuming 5p at home) you’d need to do more than 10800kwh of public charging to be worse off. If they’re trips you could have done in the 64 without charging then you’re not putting more than 25kwh in each time. So 432 trips to break even. Even at Ionity rates that’s 6250kwh or 250 trips.

There’s absolutely good reasons to spend more upfront on a bigger battery to get more convenience and flexibility but most people will be better off overall paying less upfront and more for their occasional charges.
 

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Kia Soul EV 2020 64KWh
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In the short term, I think people fixate on costs of running an EV being cheaper than an ICE because that is one of the incentives to switch to EV.

When charging at home for the majority of your mileage then it will likely continue to be much cheaper than an ICE for the long term.

But in the longer term, I don't think that there should be an expectation that running an EV will be cheaper overall than an ICE. It's not how the world works.

EV will be the defacto standard in 10-15 years time and I think for many, the costs will be comparable to running an ICE, not just because the public charging infrastructure will cost the same per mile as an ICE did because the infrastructure needs to be paid for, but because road pricing will replace fuel duty at some point soon, whether we like it or not.

There will be a premium to pay for convenience on the fastest chargers on the major road network, just like there is a premium to pay now when you fill up on the motorway. But there will be always be a place for slower (i.e. less rapid) chargers at 50kw in the locality (supermarkets etc) that people use when they can't charge at home and I would expect these to stay cheaper than the really fast rapids.

It's definitely going in the wrong direction price wise but I am not sure I ever expected it be any different.
 

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These high prices for electricity (Ionity esp) are getting to the point where electrical mpkWh cost > petrol mpg cost! How long will it be before the Gvt decides to tax electricity drawn out of these fixed-location Rapids? They're an easy target, it seems to me, the owners already have all the consumption figures recorded, and would to some extent offset losses in petrol & diesel fuel taxes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Seems a bit odd to differentiate the pricing based on the type of charger rather than the rate of charge. My Ioniq has no advantage whatsoever at a 150kW charger! If all the 50kW chargers are going to be replaced with these then this is quite an increase.
I'd agree more with their pricing policy if there was a mix of different chargers at sites. That would discourage the 50kW charging cars from using the 150kW chargers as they are paying more and not getting any benefit.
 
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