[Hoa Tu]

Chargemaster have now released pricing info for MK area. Either £1 or £2 per hour + £20 per annum fee. Presumably it'll be the same across other geographic regions.

https://www.milton-keynes.gov.uk/st...arking/parking/electric-vehicle-charge-points

*** edit ***

Confirmed as same price for Polar network:

http://www.chargemasterplc.com/index.php/polar_online/

*** end edit ***

Full text below:

From 1st April 2014, there will be charges for the use of electric vehicle (EV) charging points.

The charges will be

£1 per hour (or part of) for the 3kw charge points (the older posts that charge in 6　 - 8 hrs)

£2 per hour (or part of) for the 7kw charge points (the newer posts that charge in 4 – 6 hrs)

These charges are subject to the user being a member of the national POLAR scheme. Membership costs £20 per annum and allows access to charge points nationwide.

From 1st April, we will also be upgrading the posts to pay as you go, which will allow people to charge even if not a member of the scheme. The cost for this option will be 50% higher than that stated above, i.e. £1.50/£3 depending on which charge speed is used.

Parking will remain free of charge in the EV bays and EV motorists will only pay for the charge they draw down, not per hour spent parked, i.e. if they park at 9am and only use £1 of charge, they can remain in the space for the remainder of the day without making additional payment.

All EV’s are eligible to purchase a ‘Green’ parking permit which allows parking in any standard rate parking space. This permit costs £75 per annum and is available to all vehicles (including non- electric internal combustion engines) that emit under 100g CO2 per km driven.

The Council will not receive income form the fees for using the charge points although the supplier, Chargemaster, will operate the scheme at no cost to the Council (they will meet the electricity, back office, maintenance costs etc) This is a saving for the Council of over £100,000 over the contract period based on the current level of usage which is increasing exponentially (doubling each quarter) so the actual saving will be far higher.

The fees to use the posts may seem high but 40% of the fee consists of the cost to provide the electricity and 20% is VAT.

We are also in the process of sourcing 100% green electricity, generated from wind and solar, to supply the posts.

Rapid chargers, capable of charging an electric vehicle in just 20 minutes, will be installed in Milton Keynes soon.

Can't see anyone paying those prices. I'll be charging my leaf using solar panels and at Ikea or Newport Pagnell services.

 

[Paul_Moxhay]

Sorry but I got quite angry when I read that announcement... not that they are charging... charging is inevitable if we want these networks to remain in operation... but the following makes my blood boil:

Parking will remain free of charge in the EV bays and EV motorists will only pay for the charge they draw down, not per hour spent parked, i.e. if they park at 9am and only use £1 of charge, they can remain in the space for the remainder of the day without making additional payment.

So, there are very limited spaces and yet someone can pay £1/2 for 1 hr of charge and then BLOCK THE SPACE for other EV drivers for the rest of the day!!!!!

What planet are MK council on!!!

BTW I'd pay it if I needed it but in all honesty... I don't think that there will be many people "needed" a 3kW/7kW charge if it costs them.

They will mostly just charge at home if they can. If they can't then it becomes a very pricey option. A full charge will cost about £8... for about 60-75 miles in my case... it would only cost me about £7 in a normal ICE!!!!!!

 

[garry]

Milton Keynes Council should change there minds and lead the way not louse the way. Set of rob dogs, talk about a kick in the nuts for EVs to me thats the end before the start as it would be as cheep to run a Fossil fuel car? You need to send emails to MK Council to tell them of there mistakes Why here in the UK do we have to think about money first it's not all about the money think of the smoke or not. The poor little Electric cars have hardly got of the ground. SAD SAD SAD.

Nissan should get in on this as it will kill sales.

https://www.milton-keynes.gov.uk/st...arking/parking/electric-vehicle-charge-points

 

[Paul_Moxhay]

MK, as with most councils, are not interested in listening to common sense or to EV drivers.

3 years ago I bought my Nissan Leaf full of confidence for the future. Now, what with rapid chargers that fail, stupid locations of chargers in general, charge points that are constantly ICEd or not operational, Mad stupidity from councils, total indifference or even aggression from non EV owners, constant in-fighting between EV owners... it is turning out to be a much harder and less enjoyable transition that I could have possibly imagined.

This whole EV transition has been done completely piecemeal and unplanned and cost us hundreds of millions so far. What a shambles.

I would love to stay positive and continue to work towards a better future but I have to be honest... it is wearing me down

 

[Paul]

I have given this topic its own thread as I think it's really important and interesting.

So the charges IF you're paying £20 a year are:

£1 per hour (or part of) for the 3kw charge points (the older posts that charge in 6　 - 8 hrs)

£2 per hour (or part of) for the 7kw charge points (the newer posts that charge in 4 – 6 hrs)

And £2/£3 if you're not.

However you DO NOT have to charge, so you can just park for free and block the charger all day long if you like.

Sorry, but that's just stupid. You can tell these people don't own and operate their own EVs or indeed listen to EV owners.

Also, NO PRICING for the rapid chargers announced.

 

[Paul]

The footnote is *#@!*#! hilarious...

"Hertz Hire Vehicles

The Hertz electric and low carbon vehicle hire scheme was a trial that is due to end in July 2014. The introduction of charges for use of the EV charge points may render the Hertz scheme no longer financially viable to Hertz and the scheme is likely to be discontinued from 1st April 2014 (when charges for use of the EV charge points are introduced). MKC are working with Hertz to see if this can be avoided, at no additional cost to either party."

Oh really, the charges make it commercially non-viable? What about for regular EV owners and drivers? Ah, screw them.

Urgh.

 

[Geoff]

I would support a letter from Speakev.com giving the general opinion of members. Either that or we should all send our opinions to MK. Maybe even do both.

 

[Paul_Moxhay]

Any action is pointless IMO. MK, and all councils I have been involved with, have shown time and time again that they are not interested in our views. What matters to them is not that it actually works but rather than they are seen to be doing something. If it fails then they can always blame the lack of EVs on the road or public disinterest.

Speakev.com is not a representative of EV drivers... just its members and just those members who are in favour of any action.Why would anyone give any weight to a few online EV owners? Remember... most EV owners are not members of any forum let alone speakev.

 

[brian orr]

I agree with Paul here, any letter would be futile. If the business case for having slow chargers is not self-evident - then sure as hell we can't make it as an EV chat room 'group'. The whole idea of the chargers being a public service, in support of Govt Low Carbon policies wont work either.
Councils have major budget issues that are impacting on refuse collection parks and recreation etc. etc. If a service doesn't provide adequate revenue (or is a liability) - then it will be cut!
In other threads there seemed to be a consensus that, with the advent of rapid chargers, slow/rapid chargers were becoming obsolete. Whilst users of Shopping centres were willing to offer free charging EV drivers would reward them with custom. However, if charges were to be introduced few would use them. Indeed they might take their shopping business elsewhere, as the introduction of charges reflected that, as customers, they were now less valued?
Finally, just to emphasise what really irks me - is that EV users are never ever consulted! EV owner/drivers are pawns in a social re-engineering process based on the need to lower the nation's carbon production; however, we are only useful for statistical purposes.

 

[Eunicholas]

I'm not sure what to say it's just pure cheek

 

[Alexander Sims]

Do we know if these charges are for all Polar/Chargemaster posts or solely for the MK charge points?

MK council's website suggests that their hand is being forced. If these costs roll out across the UK then it's going to kill 'at destination' charging possibilities.
With new Model S owners, for a full charge it will cost £30 if they are a member or 45 if not! That is bonkers quite frankly.

The members fee is expensive but the non members fee is extortionate. Why adopt this model?! Why not scrap the silly joining fee and have a set rate. If we want mass adoption why insist on stupid clubs to recharge cheaply?! When do you see 2 options on petrol prices depending on whether you have a nectar card or not?! People find it frustrating if they are penalised for not planning their journey days in advance to check if here is an RFID card that they should get for the area...!

MK claim that 40% of the fee is for the electricity... Well at £2 per hour, my guessing is that the shopping centres etc pay around 10p per kWh, that's probably about right for a 7kw post (around 70p in electricity per hour).
To me, a pound per hour at this rate so they make some profit, would be absolutely fine. I would have no issue paying a bit more for public charging than I do at home. At £2 per hour it is steep and quite honestly wouldn't consider use it if making a long trip to see friends in MK. I'll stick to a 13amp socket in their garage...

I think we all realise it's never going to be free for ever but a fair mark up on the service is to be expected, simply making it almost as expensive as an ICE to charge though is pointless and will not work IMO. They will surely realise when the usage drops through the floor?! Maybe I'm being too hopeful and it will be the end of convenient destination and top up charging...

 

[Kevin Sharpe]

My suggestion is that EV drivers build an alternative charging network.... Zero Carbon World has the experience with more than 520 Charging Stations installed and a long waiting list.... they just need funds to support the donation process and crowdsourcing or more traditional charity fund raising is worth investigating IMO.

Transition Town Forres provide a great example

http://transitiontownforres.wordpress.com/projects/electric-vehicle-charging-station/

 

[Paul_Moxhay]

I am beginning to think that anything other than rapid charging at public locations is just plain silly and not worth the effort and cost. 7kW, or even better 22kW, at hotels etc as destination charging makes sense and can work well as ZeroNet shows but any kind of charging that requires hours is just plain silly.

This is almost like trying to build a petrol station network that can only deliver 2lt per hour of petrol. It is a mad thing to even consider. It is always going to be an interim solution. It won't be that long before cars will all come with long range and rapid charging. Sure, it isn't there yet but it is coming and yet we are spending hundreds of millions on trying to build a slow-charging network that will just grow into disrepair and disuse as more and more cars have proper rapid charging (100kW+) and get proper range (250+ miles).

I realise that I am talking in the future and yes, I accept that we need an interim solution to support the transition. But I don't see 7kW charging everywhere as any kind of viable solution. It is never going to be fast enough to make it worthwhile for long trips and the profits that are possible are meagre at best so any network operators are always going to struggle.

IMO we should be concentrating on getting a reliable rapid charge network and destination charging at slower rates. Everything else is pretty irrelevant as most people will charge at home when not on a long trip and using rapid charging.

I predict that POLAR/ChargeMaster will go belly up in a year or two and then we might start to get a viable national charging strategy for the future instead of struggling and spending millions trying to get one for today.

 

[Matt Beard]

I predict that POLAR/ChargeMaster will go belly up in a year or two and then we might start to get a viable national charging strategy for the future instead of struggling and spending millions trying to get one for today.

Actually I suspect POLAR/ChargeMaster will go belly up in a year or two and then we will be left with less public chargers, private companies with no appetite to repeat the experiment and councils with no funding for chargers.

 

[misterbleepy]

I do see a place for slower chargers - car parks for towns that one might spend a few hours at, and park and ride car parks.
This would be great for me in places that are more than ½ of my range away (for me that would be places like Penzance, St Ives, Plymouth etc) which currently I can't use my EV to get to as there's almost no rapid charging infrastructure down here.
I realise that most other members of this forum live in areas with better infrastructure than me, so my view might not be shared, but I think any long stay car park would be a good fit for non-rapid chargers, as long as there are plenty of them so blocking is not an issue.

 

[Paul_Moxhay]

...and then we will be left with less public chargers, private companies with no appetite to repeat the experiment and councils with no funding for chargers.

Actually I don't think this will matter much. The charging that POLAR/ChargeMaster provide are, on the whole, non-essential. They have been used by most people not because they need them but because they are there.

I accept that in some cases they are a lifeline and I accept that I too have used them to make trips which I couldn't have made. However, the number of trips where this kind of charging is necessary is small IMO and other solutions would have to be found. But I don't think it sensible to be spending this kind of money to satisfy such a minority requirement.

I for one will be pleased to see ChargeMaster fail. It might spark a proper public debate on the future of EV charging which we don't have at the moment. It might also trigger a realisation that we need solutions that will work in the future... not just now and very few people are thinking past today.

 

[Kevin Sharpe]

I do see a place for slower chargers - car parks for towns that one might spend a few hours at, and park and ride car parks.

Agreed... destination charging will always be required by visitors and residents without access to charging at home. Simple, reliable, AC charging deployed in large numbers will address most of the issues that we see today. Longer range and/or reliable rapid charging networks (aka Tesla Superchargers) will take care of charging on-route.

 

[LK13]

This announcement has been made by MK council. Has anyone seen an announcement from ChargeMaster on their pay structure effective 1st May? While I expect them to mirror the MK charges I would like to see their official announcement.

 

[Paul]

Nope. At least MK council have provided us time to work out how we're all going to share the two fee-free non-motorway rapids between us all in the town.

 

[planetf1]

I can't wait to visit milton keynes and pay around £24 to charge (Mennekes but to 16A leaf)?
I too also have issue with EVs parking but not charging in spots equipped with charging capability. That is a waste of resource

One opportunity here