Chargeplace Scotland changing from Charge your Car to SWARCO eVolt

22658 Views 259 Replies 32 Participants Last post by Duncan, Sep 2, 2021

DBMandrake

Discussion Starter · Mar 5, 2021 (Edited)

News has just hit that Chargeplace Scotland (CPS) who have used Charge your Car for their authentication and billing for the last several years will be switching to SWARCO eVolt starting in July:

SWARCO eVolt to operate ChargePlace Scotland | Transport Scotland

www.transport.gov.scot

This is an interesting albeit not unexpected change. What does it mean for end users?

Will existing RFID cards continue to work or do we need new ones? Will CPS accounts (which are basically just CYC accounts and use the same CYC app) be migrated across or will we be needing to create new accounts?

Will CPS cards stop working on CYC sites in England and will CYC cards stop working on CPS sites in Scotland?

Will CPS finally get their own mobile app instead of just using the CYC branded app and a fairly useless web browser based lookup?

While I of course recognise eVolt and a lot of rapids on the CPS network are already eVolt units, I have no knowledge of their ability to run a back end authentication and billing system, although they're unlikely to be worse than CYC.

So, good news? Bad news? Ambivalent ?

To be honest it's quite a while since I've used a CPS charger!

121 - 140 of 260 Posts

Duncan

· #121 · Jul 24, 2021

SCA1972 said:
Yeah, doesn’t sound good. It does feel like they may have created a separate back office system for CPS, instead of integrating with the existing Swarco system. Which seems costly and silly to me when their existing system already works and integrates Be.Ev, MFG and other brands on the same system.

Given the mess of untangling the CYC back-end systems from the existing CPS stuff I would really hope the new contract has a condition requiring them to keep the two operations separated. SWARCO may not have the contract for ever so they need to plan for a cleaner exit.

On the other hand as an EV driver it would be nice if existing Swarco accounts just worked with CPS.

Reactions: 3

farmergiles

· #122 · Jul 24, 2021

Duncan said:
Given the mess of untangling the CYC back-end systems from the existing CPS stuff I would really hope the new contract has a condition requiring them to keep the two operations separated. SWARCO may not have the contract for ever so they need to plan for a cleaner exit.

On the other hand as an EV driver it would be nice if existing Swarco accounts just worked with CPS.

There's confusion over what role CPS plays - it does not control the chargers, the network, the app or accounts, or take payments. It is an agency of Transport Scotland, the Scottish version of England's dept for transport (DfT).

It appoints the operator and according to their website the contract is 2years though you can say it is ultimately responsible for the CPS charging network, just from a distance.

CYC (BP Chargemaster) obviously were useless, like, some say, Chargemaster in the rest of the UK , but you can imagine just how big a task it is for any new operator to take over.

Hopefully CPS will have added conditions to Swaro's contract for minimum uptime, helpline availability and what happens if the want out in 2years, etc.

I expect in time, Swaro accounts used in the rest of the UK will also work in Scotland, without you having to have a CPS card as well.

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Reactions: 2

freddym

· #123 · Jul 24, 2021

farmergiles said:
There's confusion over what role CPS plays - it does not control the chargers, the network, the app or accounts, or take payments. It is an agency of Transport Scotland, the Scottish version of England's dept for transport (DfT).

It appoints the operator and according to their website the contract is 2years though you can say it is ultimately responsible for the CPS charging network, just from a distance.

CYC (BP Chargemaster) obviously were useless, like, some say, Chargemaster in the rest of the UK , but you can imagine just how big a task it is for any new operator to take over.

Hopefully CPS will have added conditions to Swaro's contract for minimum uptime, helpline availability and what happens if the want out in 2years, etc.

I expect in time, Swaro accounts used in the rest of the UK will also work in Scotland, without you having to have a CPS card as well.

Swarco will have a lot of influence over proper running of the network, including a greater say in maintenance.

Oddball installations will increasingly be removed, standardised etc
I learnt from latest webinar that remaining satellite phone com units have all been removed so it's SIM Comms only now.
ABB seem like a bad player when it comes to maintenance or at least not many maintenance agreements in place, possibly all ad-hoc breakdown. If I have nothing better to do, I'll make a list of the ABB units/ locations.

Duncan

· #124 · Jul 24, 2021

farmergiles said:
There's confusion over what role CPS plays - it does not control the chargers, the network, the app or accounts, or take payments. It is an agency of Transport Scotland, the Scottish version of England's dept for transport (DfT).

It appoints the operator and according to their website the contract is 2years though you can say it is ultimately responsible for the CPS charging network, just from a distance.

CYC (BP Chargemaster) obviously were useless, like, some say, Chargemaster in the rest of the UK , but you can imagine just how big a task it is for any new operator to take over.

Hopefully CPS will have added conditions to Swaro's contract for minimum uptime, helpline availability and what happens if the want out in 2years, etc.

I expect in time, Swaro accounts used in the rest of the UK will also work in Scotland, without you having to have a CPS card as well.

I didn't know it was a fixed 2 year contract but in that case definitely most important for any operator to keep both systems separate.

CYC is a mess, they emailed me around the start of the month to say they had failed to get payment with a 404 error (so their payment system messed up, not my card). I emailed the admin address in their email and it bounced as invalid. I think now BP has lost the CPS operating contract they're just not interested in CYC any more at all.

freddym

· #125 · Jul 24, 2021

Duncan said:
I didn't know it was a fixed 2 year contract but in that case definitely most important for any operator to keep both systems separate.

CYC is a mess, they emailed me around the start of the month to say they had failed to get payment with a 404 error (so their payment system messed up, not my card). I emailed the admin address in their email and it bounced as invalid. I think now BP has lost the CPS operating contract they're just not interested in CYC any more at all.

It's a two year contract with options to extend.

Reactions: 1

MrMajika

· #126 · Jul 24, 2021 (Edited)

freddym said:
Not paying a charge is not really a sustainable position. Vast majority of CPS chargers are not free.

I agree that it's not sustainable in the long term, however, in my (albeit relatively new) experience, most are free. Indeed, the CPS website talks of a "high majority" being free.

Does somewhere quote the figures?

EDIT: On the CPS website you can filter by free and paid which gives a visual indication. It seems the free ones are concentrated around the central belt. I assume that this will be individual council areas setting their own policies / charges?

Reactions: 1

Felisek

· #127 · Jul 24, 2021

farmergiles said:
There's confusion over what role CPS plays - it does not control the chargers, the network, the app or accounts, or take payments. It is an agency of Transport Scotland, the Scottish version of England's dept for transport (DfT).

It appoints the operator and according to their website the contract is 2years though you can say it is ultimately responsible for the CPS charging network, just from a distance.

CYC (BP Chargemaster) obviously were useless, like, some say, Chargemaster in the rest of the UK , but you can imagine just how big a task it is for any new operator to take over.

Hopefully CPS will have added conditions to Swaro's contract for minimum uptime, helpline availability and what happens if the want out in 2years, etc.

I expect in time, Swaro accounts used in the rest of the UK will also work in Scotland, without you having to have a CPS card as well.

It's even more complicated than this, as there are local authorities involved. They decide about tariffs and, until recently, many of them provided free charging. I am not sure who pays for electricity then, I'm guessing the local authority. I'm not sure who owns the infrastructure and what the exact role of the operator is, with at least three parties involved.

To make things even more confusing, some chargers are privately owned. University of Dundee owns a few chargers on their land and they set the rules for usage and tariffs.

Reactions: 1

freddym

· #128 · Jul 24, 2021

Felisek said:
It's even more complicated than this, as there are local authorities involved. They decide about tariffs and, until recently, many of them provided free charging. I am not sure who pays for electricity then, I'm guessing the local authority. I'm not sure who owns the infrastructure and what the exact role of the operator is, with at least three parties involved.

To make things even more confusing, some chargers are privately owned. University of Dundee owns a few chargers on their land and they set the rules for usage and tariffs.

There's more and more privately owned chargers on the CPS network, garden centers etc

freddym

· #129 · Jul 24, 2021

MrMajika said:
I agree that it's not sustainable in the long term, however, in my (albeit relatively new) experience, most are free. Indeed, the CPS website talks of a "high majority" being free.

Does somewhere quote the figures?

EDIT: On the CPS website you can filter by free and paid which gives a visual indication. It seems the free ones are concentrated around the central belt. I assume that this will be individual council areas setting their own policies / charges?

If you are using the ZapMap filter to see which CPS are free, you will be seeing data which is VERY out if date.

farmergiles

· #130 · Jul 24, 2021

Felisek said:
It's even more complicated than this, as there are local authorities involved.

Tell me about it.
Argyll & Bute council believe that CPS should repair their chargers, despite CPS stating that charge point hosts are responsible for their chargers.

I'm waiting for a reply from Transport Scotland after they speak to the council, since I raised the matter of the Inveraray, Dunoon and Fionphort chargers with the council and got nowhere.

Another important charger at Arrochar is still also showing as 'unknown' with the last charge being on the 20th. That means no working rapid charger between Balloch and Lochgilphead. If this packs up then it's potentially a disaster for some EV owners. Couldn't have a lower opinion of A&B council who also must have the fewest rapid chargers of any local authority.

farmergiles

· #131 · Jul 24, 2021

MrMajika said:
I agree that it's not sustainable in the long term, however, in my (albeit relatively new) experience, most are free. Indeed, the CPS website talks of a "high majority" being free.

Does somewhere quote the figures?

EDIT: On the CPS website you can filter by free and paid which gives a visual indication. It seems the free ones are concentrated around the central belt. I assume that this will be individual council areas setting their own policies / charges?

There does need to consistency enforced by CPS on councils as regards both pricing and time allowed. For example in East Lothian its 30p and 45mins then an overstay pnealty on all their rapids. Whereas next door, most are free and no time limit. As I pointed out to EL, 45mins is barely adequate on a 50kw rapid (okay on an ultra rapid) and EV owners will bypass their chargers if at all possible and use the neeighbouring free, unlimited chargers.

I expect they wall all fall into line eventually and once Swarco have agreed maintenance contracts with them.
Ideally, Swarco will just fix faulty chargers and bill the council so they don't have to do anything (which some are doing anyway)

Reactions: 1

freddym

· #132 · Jul 24, 2021

farmergiles said:
Tell me about it.
Argyll & Bute council believe that CPS should repair their chargers, despite CPS stating that charge point hosts are responsible for their chargers.

I'm waiting for a reply from Transport Scotland after they speak to the council, since I raised the matter of the Inveraray, Dunoon and Fionphort chargers with the council and got nowhere.

Another important charger at Arrochar is still also showing as 'unknown' with the last charge being on the 20th. That means no working rapid charger between Balloch and Lochgilphead. If this packs up then it's potentially a disaster for some EV owners. Couldn't have a lower opinion of A&B council who also must have the fewest rapid chargers of any local authority.

Arrochar is shown as free tarriff on PS and ZM whereas it's 25p per unit plus minimum charge plus overstay penalty. Anyone using the 2nd hand information on PS or ZM would of course form an entirely incorrect impression.

Norniron man

· #133 · Jul 24, 2021

SCA1972 said:
I will be travelling up to Scotland on the 28th or 29th. As previously stated haven’t been able to visit my mum for 18 months, so not keen to delay my trip further.
I can’t charge at my mum’s and the nearest chargers to her are all CPS chargers so cost saving is part of it but was also convenience. There is a CPS rapid 5 minutes walk away and some fast chargers about 15 minutes walk. Next nearest are an Instavolt then an Osprey which are not within walking distance. I’m 3700 miles into my EV ownership and haven’t paid for a charge yet, which helps offset the large outlay to purchase the car.

Always had contingency plans as this is will be my first big EV trip and I’m unfamiliar with the charger reliability on route. I know what the local chargers are like down here as I don’t have the option of home charging, so visit them regularly.

Good luck with CPS I hope you have the rf card as I did nt and would have been stranded as CYC and CPS apps don't control charge points I found and the helpline staff don't want to know as Swarco comes on board (both Cyc and cps are actually BP) .I used POD point chargers either free at Tescos(Perth) or 25p /kW at Lidls (Aberdeen).helplines answered in 5 mins very helpful staff (my cable would not unlock at Perth).

Carsick Steve

· #134 · Jul 24, 2021

freddym said:
OK, are you moaning on behalf of yourself or some other generic users.
The communications have been pretty good. Are you making journeys on the 27th, 28th, 29th. Can these be delayed.Can you take advantage of alternative charging, at work, at your destination.
General principal is one the same as making an omelette.

He’s ‘moaning’ on behalf of all of us who have relied on CPS to use our EVs to get around Scotland and have experienced less than ideal service for years now, and who were promised a working app from day 1 by SWARCO and have been let down again. They’ve been working on this for months, and only now they admit they can’t provide a functioning service, even for those of us who have RFID cards for their other operations? It’s poor stuff and as usual somehow it becomes the job of the EV user to mitigate for others’ incompetence.

I’ll be in Aberdeen on D-Day visiting my father for the first time in more than a year and need to get to Dundee, Glasgow and down to Carlisle in the first week of the new contract. So - with probably hundreds of others - I’ll be scraping around using Instavolt, ancient Ecotricity machines and whoever else I can find to get me from A to B. There may be queues. There will be delays and frustration in what is a busy time of year. Frankly, fanboys making inane comments about omelettes isn’t helping anyone.

I’m sure Swarco’s task is not an easy one but there’s a limit to everyone’s ability to rearrange their lives around this stuff, particularly in a pandemic. I’d like to see the Scottish Government take some responsibility here - why has the existing shambles been allowed to fester for so long? Whose poor contract management has allowed CYC to take the piss for so long? Is the CPS model fit for purpose? Are there too many cooks? Why are they making the transition in mid-summer? Will there be a penalty to SWARCO for failing to provide the app as promised? Is anyone paying attention?

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Carsick Steve

· #135 · Jul 24, 2021

farmergiles said:
FFS give Swarco a chance, they only migrate between 10pm on monday and 5am on tuesday and only then can they discover which chargers are not responding and test the app with their own staff before making it publicly available.

CYC will have done as little as they can to aid the transition.

Come back with 'messy' comments at the end of next month! Hopefully you won't need to or I'll have to eat my words.

Sounds and feels messy to me. Why do we need to give a month’s grace? As the poor bloody customer, it doesn’t matter whose fault it is, it’s a mess on day one, probably week one, maybe week two and three as well.
I often proselytise about EV ownership, but this is the kind of nonsense that we really shouldn’t have to put up with any more. Yes, I’m sure it will be sorted in the end, but charger infrastructure is no longer a nice to have bit of eco-bling to put on the carbon reduction page of a council’s website, it’s essential service provision.

farmergiles

· #136 · Jul 25, 2021

Carsick Steve said:
Sounds and feels messy to me. Why do we need to give a month’s grace? As the poor bloody customer, it doesn’t matter whose fault it is, it’s a mess on day one, probably week one, maybe week two and three as well.
I often proselytise about EV ownership, but this is the kind of nonsense that we really shouldn’t have to put up with any more. Yes, I’m sure it will be sorted in the end, but charger infrastructure is no longer a nice to have bit of eco-bling to put on the carbon reduction page of a council’s website, it’s essential service provision.

Let's wait and see what happens on tuesday.

It is disappointing that the app won't be available until the following monday but there must be a reason for the delay, though we'll never know what it is.

Perhaps the chargers will be on free vend if contactless is not an option or the new helpline in Dundee will be adequately manned.

I totally agree that some councils don't get EV charging and it is indeed just eco bling as you put it and also a box ticking exercise.

freddym

· #137 · Jul 25, 2021

Norniron man said:
Good luck with CPS I hope you have the rf card as I did nt and would have been stranded as CYC and CPS apps don't control charge points I found and the helpline staff don't want to know as Swarco comes on board (both Cyc and cps are actually BP) .I used POD point chargers either free at Tescos(Perth) or 25p /kW at Lidls (Aberdeen).helplines answered in 5 mins very helpful staff (my cable would not unlock at Perth).

This guy NEVER gets anything correct. There is no CPS app. Maybe your problems arise because you are using the wrong app?

Duncan

· #138 · Jul 26, 2021 (Edited)

The new swarco app is live although it doesn't actually list any charging points yet.

play.google.com

ChargePlace Scotland - Apps on Google Play

Find stations and Charge your EV with the ChargePlace Scotland

play.google.com

play.google.com

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Hedley Wright

· #139 · Jul 26, 2021

Duncan said:
The new swarco app is live although it doesn't actually list any charging points yet.
View attachment 147652

ChargePlace Scotland - Apps on Google Play

Find stations and Charge your EV with the ChargePlace Scotland

play.google.com

I don’t see anything on the iOS App Store yet.

freddym

· #140 · Jul 26, 2021

Duncan said:
The new swarco app is live although it doesn't actually list any charging points yet.
View attachment 147652

ChargePlace Scotland - Apps on Google Play

Find stations and Charge your EV with the ChargePlace Scotland

play.google.com

Thanks for heads-up

Look on Playstore under ChargePlaceScotland subtitled Swarco UK ltd.

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