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Play by the king and love is all I bring
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Discussion Starter #1
Just wondering if this is possible? I'm talking about charging my R240 (which is software limited to 22kW charging). Will it work, charging at 22 kW and ignore the rest, same as when charging at a 43 kW rapid?
 

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Play by the king and love is all I bring
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Discussion Starter #3
Ah, there we are then. I just tried it actually, as I was driving past a supercharger at Tankersley Manor, Sheffield. As you said, it didn't work, The car didn't even recognise anything was plugged in to it. Also, the Type 2 plug was very stiff.
 

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Play by the king and love is all I bring
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Discussion Starter #6

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Zoe Devotee
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Because it's a Type 2 plug and the Zoe has a Type 2 socket..
Does your Zoe still work? Yes.... then the system works.... sure some would have been interested in the fireball that would have occurred had it not worked. Plus you'd be the first Zoe owner to have a burned out car.
 

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Chartered Engineer
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The Tesla Supercharger uses a type 2 plug but apparently modified with longer pins ie: a standard type 2 plug will plug in fine to a Tesla but the Tesla plug won't fully insert into a standard type 2. The Tesla also uses a modification of the same comms, but that's where the similarity ends;

The Superchargers are high power DC chargers ie: the charger is actually in the boxes behind the Superchargers (one stack for every pair of Supercharger stations) and they pair up pins in the plug to provide the DC connection. If the system had powered up the result would have been at best a smoking Zoe, and at worst a serious fire so glad to see the system works!

The Zoe uses 22 or 43kW AC and has an onboard charger so it does the AC/DC conversion in the car and requires an AC power source.
 

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If the system had powered up the result would have been at best a smoking Zoe, and at worst a serious fire so glad to see the system works!
Realistically even if the supercharger had activated (which is impossible given that the Zoe doesn't speak CAN and wouldn't have known how to ask the supercharger to do that), nothing would have happened at all.

Applying 400V to some of the Zoe's Type 2 pins isn't going to do anything unless the Zoe also closes its internal contactors to make a circuit. Very worst case you might blow an emergency fuse in the Zoe.
 

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Chartered Engineer
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Realistically even if the supercharger had activated (which is impossible given that the Zoe doesn't speak CAN and wouldn't have known how to ask the supercharger to do that), nothing would have happened at all.

Applying 400V to some of the Zoe's Type 2 pins isn't going to do anything unless the Zoe also closes its internal contactors to make a circuit. Very worst case you might blow an emergency fuse in the Zoe.
Thinking about it a bit more I think you're correct since the current would all be flowing in the charger HV side - the battery would effectively be isolated by the charger in circuit in the car. It's unlikely to do the charger much good mind, but as you say good fusing would cover that. Presumably while Tesla's comms use standard hardware they have their own protocol messages sent on it so it should be pretty near impossible for a standard Zoe to activate a power up as you say.
 

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Myth. It's a standard plug.
That would certainly make sense from a cost perspective (and I haven't tried measuring the plugs), although I would have thought the standard plug even with two pairs of paralleled pins would be marginal at 120kW let alone the rumoured 150kW!
 

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Co-author of CanZE. Q210 nov 2013
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For AC usage, each of the "thick" pins is used at a maximum of 64 amps.

In DC mode Tesla use 480 volt at 200 amps. As the Type 2 plug has 4 thick pins (plus earth), each pin should carry 100 amps. AFAIK the "normal Mennekes" plug is rated for 70 amps per pin, so 140 amps max.

BTW, Wikipedia (no gospel implied!) states in the last paragraph the plug is a modified one, and to be honest, that does make sense. As the car side is "male", longer, equally deeper mounted pins don't matter when shoving in regular 22 kW AC.
 

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Play by the king and love is all I bring
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Discussion Starter #15
As someone who has been smart enough to try to charge his Zoe on a 120 kW supercharger, I can confirm that the Type 2 plug looks the same, but doesn't fit nicely in to the Zoe's socket. It's stiff and doesn't go all the way in. It's Type 2, but not as we know it.
 

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That would certainly make sense from a cost perspective (and I haven't tried measuring the plugs), although I would have thought the standard plug even with two pairs of paralleled pins would be marginal at 120kW let alone the rumoured 150kW!
The Mennekes plug is designed to be able to bear up to 43kW AC continuously (and probably at 55 degree ambient air temperature).

The Tesla supercharger connector never has to run at 120kW for more than about 20 minutes; tapering kicks in after that.

Despite this the plugs frequently get damaged and are replaced regularly. After an SC session the whole plug body is noticeably hot to the touch and I bet the pins are very hot indeed (I've never thought to take my IR camera along to a supercharger to find out).

The reason Tesla have been trialling liquid cooled SC cables is IMO not because they want to have thinner cables, it's because they want to have cooler plugs (and I bet the plug is the current limitation in terms of going above 120kW).

For AC usage, each of the "thick" pins is used at a maximum of 64 amps.

In DC mode Tesla use 480 volt at 200 amps. As the Type 2 plug has 4 thick pins (plus earth), each pin should carry 100 amps. AFAIK the "normal Mennekes" plug is rated for 70 amps per pin, so 140 amps max.

BTW, Wikipedia (no gospel implied!) states in the last paragraph the plug is a modified one, and to be honest, that does make sense. As the car side is "male", longer, equally deeper mounted pins don't matter when shoving in regular 22 kW AC.
The output voltage of a supercharger is dependent on the voltage of the battery pack that it's charging, just like it is with CHAdeMO and CCS. For a completely empty 70kWh pack that's under 300V (for a full 90kWh pack it's about 405V).

The highest supercharging current I've seen is 370A, i.e. 185A per pin.

My understanding that the plug is not modified comes from some (IIRC) German guys who went to a supercharger, measured the connector, and found that it has standard dimensions.
 

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The Tesla plug is the same on the outside as Type 2 plug but internally two of the pins are longer to carry the higher charge rate.
That doesn't make any sense.

Where did you hear this?

Sounds to me like a chinese whisper based on the fact that the US supercharger connector has two very long pins that the power is transmitted over. But that's a proprietary plug; nothing like Type 2.
 

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That doesn't make any sense.

Where did you hear this?

Sounds to me like a chinese whisper based on the fact that the US supercharger connector has two very long pins that the power is transmitted over. But that's a proprietary plug; nothing like Type 2.
In this video EM confirms that Tesla manufacture the plug is not Mennekes and that it has been adapted to handle the supercharger level of current.
 
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