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Zoe Devotee
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In this video EM confirms that Tesla manufacture the plug not Mennekes and that it has been adapted to handle the supercharger level of current.

So... like Tesla have ripped off someone's else's plug. wow!
 

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So you're saying they should have come up with their own, unique standard that was incompatible with any other plug?
Ermm... aren't they using a proprietary design in the US? Yes, the design that's incompatible with any other manufacturer.

They chose the Mennekes style for Europe because of the wide-spread of 3-phase current here. In the US, 3-phase is not ubiquitous.

European socket: http://chaenel.free.fr/images-forum/mennekes.png

US socket: http://i58.tinypic.com/28lqc1v.jpg
 

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Play by the king and love is all I bring
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Discussion Starter #25
Ok, as we know I am of sub-par intelligence, so surely the way to stop idiots like me from trying to charge their non-Tesla car on a charger that will only work with a Tesla, is to use a proprietary plug and socket that is only for Teslas..? As is the case in the US?

I don't see the point of Tesla using Type 2 plug and socket in Europe, if they're going to be modified versions anyway and incompatible with all other cars.
 

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Co-author of CanZE. Q210 nov 2013
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@Kotek Besar

Thing is, it is one-way compatible. They (Tesla owners) in Europe can charge 11 or 22 kW on Type 2 chargers.

Non-Tesla cars cannot charge on superchargers.

What I don't know is if "we" can charge on the Tesla charging bays that are not superchargers and have "normal" 22 kW. I think we cannot either because they use the identification of the car over the control lines. No card swiping or anything like that. I am sure @mgboyes can tell.

As for the design of the plug, I think it is not "nicked", as Mennekes proposed it as a standard and was accepted as such (the real story is a bit more complicated, but that is the core basically).
 

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Play by the king and love is all I bring
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Discussion Starter #27

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Super Moderator
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Ok, as we know I am of sub-par intelligence, so surely the way to stop idiots like me from trying to charge their non-Tesla car on a charger that will only work with a Tesla, is to use a proprietary plug and socket that is only for Teslas..? As is the case in the US?

I don't see the point of Tesla using Type 2 plug and socket in Europe, if they're going to be modified versions anyway and incompatible with all other cars.
They hoped the fact the charger says "TESLA" on it, the bays are painted red, and there are signs up that says "Parking for TESLA vehicles ONLY" would be enough to persuade you not to try?
 

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@Kotek Besar

Thing is, it is one-way compatible. They (Tesla owners) in Europe can charge 11 or 22 kW on Type 2 chargers.

Non-Tesla cars cannot charge on superchargers.

What I don't know is if "we" can charge on the Tesla charging bays that are not superchargers and have "normal" 22 kW. I think we cannot either because they use the identification of the car over the control lines. No card swiping or anything like that. I am sure @mgboyes can tell.

As for the design of the plug, I think it is not "nicked", as Mennekes proposed it as a standard and was accepted as such (the real story is a bit more complicated, but that is the core basically).
Yes there is a proposed Type 2 standard called DC-Mid which put DC down the normal Type 2 connector, but it was limtied I think to 100A DC total. Tesla run the same connector (perhaps with different materials that have better high temperature performance, or which lead to greater contact area) at 380A.

The new Tesla Wall Connectors (i.e. their own-brand Type 2 chargepoint) seem to have some secret signalling inside them where they can be configured to either do standard Type 2 signalling, or to do something different that only Teslas understand. When they supply destination chargers to venues like hotels or restaurants they supply 2 that are Tesla-only and one that is unrestricted.
 

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Zoe Devotee
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So you're saying they should have come up with their own, unique standard that was incompatible with any other plug?
Well I'm wondering why they didn't back CCS as it seems to meet their needs? With Tesla behind CCS i'm sure it would be way more ubiquitous than a slightly re-hashed mennekes socket that looks to the layman that it will work on their AC equipped car.
 

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Thank you for that info. 185 amps on those pins is, well, just not very wise. IMHO.
Why? Do you not thing Tesla have......at least given this a cursory glance??

Well I'm wondering why they didn't back CCS as it seems to meet their needs? With Tesla behind CCS i'm sure it would be way more ubiquitous than a slightly re-hashed mennekes socket that looks to the layman that it will work on their AC equipped car.
Why would they? They've already solved the problem long before CCS came out.

The car would also need a redesign as the charging flap is not big enough to accommodate a CCS plug.

They have no need...or probably desire to help CCS with adoption.
 

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Well I'm wondering why they didn't back CCS as it seems to meet their needs? With Tesla behind CCS i'm sure it would be way more ubiquitous than a slightly re-hashed mennekes socket that looks to the layman that it will work on their AC equipped car.
Model S was already shipping when -prototype- 100kw CCS was demonstrated.
 

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Co-author of CanZE. Q210 nov 2013
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If I were a betting man, I'd say that over time, CCS and supercharging will converge. I am not so sure that in the long run Tesla wants to be a "fuel distributor" in a world where that fuel is going to be abundant, cheap and used by the entire competition at comparable charging levels, while at the same time they are moving towards the lower ends of the market. The ChaDeMo adapter is a joke. But I am not a betting man :whistle:
 

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Co-author of CanZE. Q210 nov 2013
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Why? Do you not thing Tesla have......at least given this a cursory glance??
Maybe you misunderstood me or I wasn't clear on what I meant. 185 amps on the standard Mennekes pins (designed for 70) is IMO not wise. I also think it has now been established Tesla thought along the same lines and did some modifications on the Type 2 design to counter that.
 

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185A per pin? Is it not just a '+ pin' and a 'ground pin', i.e. all current goes through a single pin.
No, the type 2 connectors has seven pins, and in the Tesla supercharger configuration one is neutral, two are positive, two are negative, one is a control signal and one is a proximity signal. In AC configuration one is neutral, three are phases 1-3 and the control and proximity are the same.
 
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