[yoh-there]

Arrogant nitpick:

Power pins:

• in DC mode two are +, two are -, one (center) is ground.
• In AC, 3 phases, 1 neutral, one (center) is ground.

Control pins:

• In AC mode the control pins are not the same. The CP carries a control signal defining a state using a voltage (through a voltage divider setup) and a maximum current (through pulse width modulation). The PP defines the cable strand wire (in Type 2), or the state of the manual locking handle (in Type 1).
• In CCS this entire control stuff has been replaced with a very weird home automation protocol. They really should have used CAN as was done in ChaDeMo, but that's all water under the bridge now.
• For supercharging, I don't know how the car communicates with the charger. I have come across it, but to be bluntly honest, I forgot the details.

For us ZOE drivers we are in the AC pins, Type 2 domain.

 

[mgboyes]

Arrogant nitpick:

Power pins:

• in DC mode two are +, two are -, one (center) is ground.
• In AC, 3 phases, 1 neutral, one (center) is ground.

All correct. Worth noting that in the US Tesla use a fully proprietary connector and that just has two power pins, so you really do get 370A per pin there.

Control pins:

• In AC mode the control pins are not the same. The CP carries a control signal defining a state using a voltage (through a voltage divider setup) and a maximum current (through pulse width modulation). The PP defines the cable strand wire (in Type 2), or the state of the manual locking handle (in Type 1).
• In CCS this entire control stuff has been replaced with a very weird home automation protocol. They really should have used CAN as was done in ChaDeMo, but that's all water under the bridge now.
• For supercharging, I don't know how the car communicates with the charger. I have come across it, but to be bluntly honest, I forgot the details.

For us ZOE drivers we are in the AC pins, Type 2 domain.

Supercharging is, roughly speaking, CAN. It's certainly more like CHAdeMO than CCS.

 

[andyfras]

For the AC (e.g.ZOE) configuration:

 

[MSHunter]

Although I hear it does work with destination chargers...
Can any one shed light on this one please as some hotels now advertise destination chargers. This could be very useful for vacations.

 

[evescu]

Destination chargers are 11 or 22kW AC (alternating current), used for overnight charging, much like most Tesla owners have at home. These chargers are mostly located at restaurant and/or hotels. The facility owner can decide whether only Tesla cars can charge or if they allow other cars to charge as well; Further more, the facility owner will decide whether to subsidise the charge or not (it may be added to your hotel bill, though that's not common, it's usually free). Tesla will pay for the installation of the charging unit at the facility, but will not pay for the electricity; it will be down to the facility owner to pay the electricity (whether by subsidising the electricity cost or by asking customers to pay). Tesla will service the destination charger if broken.

Superchargers are 120kW+ DC (direct current), used for long distance travel, owned and operated by Tesla.

Zoe accepts only AC (alternating current), so it will accept a charge from destination chargers, but not from a supercharge.

Why Tesla is using Type-2 on supercharger in Europe:

In the US, Tesla superchargers use a rather similar pin layout as a SAE J1772 connector (two pins are missing), which is standard in the US. Type-2 connector is wide-spread in Europe. If Tesla would have brought their US connector to Europe, they'd have to provide an adapter that allows the usage of the ubiquitous Type-2, so they just built it in the car and their superchargers (albeit, it is a heavily modified Type-2 connector, to survive the high power).

The communication protocol for DC high-speed for a Tesla vs. the communication protocol for AC fast-charging for a Zoe are completely different and incompatible, the supercharger will not even realize there's a car connected to it, because it will not receive the correct authentication. The Zoe will find out that there's something plugged in but then will return "check connections" error.

 

[cah197]

Although I hear it does work with destination chargers...
Can any one shed light on this one please as some hotels now advertise destination chargers. This could be very useful for vacations.

Yes, you can use the Tesla website to find hotels with destination chargers:

www.tesla.com/findus

What's not clear from the map is whether the hotel has a Tesla charger with a 'white sign' which will let any car charge. In my experience most places with more than one Tesla charger have this, but best to call ahead and check.

 

[Big277wave]

An interesting point about AC chargers in cars is that they are all switch mode devices. The first thing these devices do is rectify the mains to make DC, this DC is then passed through an inductor (coil of wire) and 'switched' on and off rapidly, when the current flows through an inductor it takes a while to increase and decrease and thus varying the width (time) of the pulse can be used to step the voltage up or down as required. It's this current through the inductors which makes the high pitched whistling that you can hear, in the case of the Zoe the motor windings are used as the inductor. As the incoming mains is rectified first it would be possible to make a switched mode charger that takes both AC and DC, the rectifying diodes might need to be a bit bigger as they are usually arranged in pairs so they only work half the time and if fed with DC only one pair would be doing all the work. There would need to be a bit of electronics to tell the external DC charger what voltage to supply, but this is similar to the way a DC charged car works, it tells the charger what to supply. AC chargers tell the car how much power they can take, which might be an issue but the CCS signalling must be working both ways depending on whether it's just the AC type 2 part of the connector being used or the additional DC connection pins. You have the limit of how much power the smaller pins can can take but it could be done. I'm not saying that it should be done though!

 

[yoh-there]

@Big277wave Actually, what you wrote is all in the patent covering the Chamelion charger! I am not sure though that is how Renault will implement CSS in the next model, since they have to provide the "Frankenplug" anyway. A direct connection to the battery might make more sense. Shameless Self Plug (SSP).

Mild nitpick: the charger electronics in CCS chargepoints are also switch mode power supplies. The only difference really being where it is, car or chargepoint side. But I hear you: DC can go "through" a car side AC charger/rectifier.

 

[mgboyes]

Sorry to nitpick but there are enough errors in here that I thought it useful to comment...

The facility owner can decide whether only Tesla cars can charge or if they allow other cars to charge as well

This is not exactly true. Tesla decide. If a site can only accommodate one chargepoint it will be a Tesla-only point. If they have space for two there may be one of each, or there may be two Tesla-only points. And if there's room for three then it will be two Tesla and one general purpose.

Tesla will pay for the installation of the charging unit at the facility

No, Tesla provide the hardware but do not pay for installation.

Why Tesla is using Type-2 on supercharger in Europe:

In the US, Tesla superchargers use a rather similar pin layout as a SAE J1772 connector (two pins are missing), which is standard in the US. Type-2 connector is wide-spread in Europe. If Tesla would have brought their US connector to Europe, they'd have to provide an adapter that allows the usage of the ubiquitous Type-2, so they just built it in the car and their superchargers

I don't think any of this is really true.

• The US Tesla connector bears almost no resemblance to a Type 1 connector.
• The reason Tesla had to use a different connector in Europe is because their US connector can't accommodate three-phase power. And since the Type 2 connector was (just) robust enough to accommodate 120kW for limited periods of time, and at the time they were part of the working group looking at CCS and they were advocating for the DC-Mid configuration to be used, they followed this path for their DC charging.

(albeit, it is a heavily modified Type-2 connector, to survive the high power).

This is a long-standing myth. It's not modified at all. Tesla just use high quality components, massively exceed the design specs, and rely on the fact that the connector only has to operate at full power for relatively short periods of time which limits heat build up. Despite this the connectors do wear out very quickly with the plastic becoming brittle and breaking off due to heat cycling. I believe Tesla now have a full time employee in the UK whose job is to replace supercharger leads as they wear out.

 

[Umpa]

This is a long-standing myth. It's not modified at all. Tesla just use high quality components, massively exceed the design specs.

That sentence does not make sense How can anyone 'massively exceed the design specs' and it not be 'modified at all'.

Others who plugged in have stated that the plug did not fit the Zoe correctly.

 

[cah197]

Others who plugged in have stated that the plug did not fit the Zoe correctly.

Well clearly it will as the Type 2 and Supercharger plug are entirely interchangeable. I use the Tesla plug on the Zoe every week.

 

[Slammer]

Well clearly it will as the Type 2 and Supercharger plug are entirely interchangeable. I use the Tesla plug on the Zoe every week.

Fits fine!

 

[Umpa]

Well clearly it will as the Type 2 and Supercharger plug are entirely interchangeable. I use the Tesla plug on the Zoe every week.

I mean the supercharger variety. Which is what this thread is about - is it not ?

Only idiots would post destination chargers.......

 

[cah197]

I mean the supercharger variety. Which is what this thread is about - is it not ?

Only idiots would post destination chargers.......

Well, it’s not something I try every week, as it’s a fairly fruitless activity.

However if it was different then it wouldn't work in my Tesla either.

Would you like me to pop up to my local Supercharger to prove this totally pointless fact to you?

 

[Slammer]

Would you like me to pop up to my local Supercharger to prove this totally pointless fact to you?

One thing is for certain, you will be blocking 2 bays whilst doing that

 

[Plugger1]

Fits like a glove..

 

[cah197]

You call that parking?

 

[Umpa]

Fits like a glove.. View attachment 104420

Well OK if it did fit like a glove that's that then, i guess the other poster is a liar then ? As they said it was tight and did not go all the way in. Both can't be right can they !

Still - if it massively exceeds the design specs, it cant be the same, and thus is modified - even if the physical size is the same. You must use a critical eye on SpeakEV.

 

[cah197]

Well OK if it did fit like a glove that's that then, i guess the other poster is a liar then ? As they said it was tight and did not go all the way in. Both can't be right can they !

Still - if it massively exceeds the design specs, it cant be the same, and thus is modified - even if the physical size is the same. You must use a critical eye on SpeakEV.

The cable is quite big and stiff, so they may not have had it at the correct angle. Or possibly they picked a damaged plug.

Either way I’m not sure what this argument achieves.

Maybe it’s a big conspiracy and everyone’s just pretending you can plug a Zoe into a Supercharger. But you are woke AF.

 

[Umpa]

The cable is quite big and stiff, so they may not have had it at the correct angle. Or possibly they picked a damaged plug.

Either way I’m not sure what this argument achieves.

Maybe it’s a big conspiracy and everyone’s just pretending you can plug a Zoe into a Supercharger. But you are woke AF.

I don't know about a conspiracy I have no interest in that, I'm only interested in whether the plug on superchargers is a modified Type 2 or a bog standard one. There seems to be a disagreement on that. I took it for granted that you could not charge from it in the first instance, hence I have never tried myself. However it you cant use a Tesla home charger as proof because it means nothing.

I have no idea what Woke AF means ! I imaging it can't be nice