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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
This is just a heartfelt plea, but can we disconnect the link between charging locations and urination/other bodily functions please? Just for once?

Why can’t EV’ers ‘go’ where all other motorists go? They manage hours long trips with no need to refuel, so when they need the toilet what do they do?

Every discussion around charging, when it isn’t moaning about Ecotricity, tries to forge an unbreakable bond between EV charging and bodily functions, or coffee or eating something.

I mean, in my e-Golf days, had I availed myself of the facilities every 2 hrs on a long trip, I’d be empty of bladder but morbidly obese and bouncing off the ceiling from caffeine intake.

I get that a lot of EV’ers may be of a certain age, but not every petrol station has a toilet either. And if they do, well, you can still stop at it in an EV.

I get also that people want to do something productive with the 30-40 mins that they’ll be stopped whilst charging, but after you’ve used a loo, you’ve still got a while to wait. There must be some acceptance that you’ve brought into a transport system that does sometimes inconvenience you.

I just feel that we all come across as a bit entitled/needy sometimes, but I do roll my eyes when I read the cries of ‘but there’s no toilets or facilities at that charge hub’.

Charging first, facilities second. You can always stop somewhere else for those, like everybody else does.

There is a public toilet crisis in the UK, they’ve basically all shut down even before Covid, but it’s not up to EV charge point providers to fix it. I want them to install fast and reliable charge points where I need them, I’m not too bothered after that.

Gawd knows what new people must think when they wander in here, it must feel as alien to them as some of us find Pistonheads.
 

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This is just a heartfelt plea, but can we disconnect the link between charging locations and urination/other bodily functions please? Just for once?

Why can’t EV’ers ‘go’ where all other motorists go? They manage hours long trips with no need to refuel, so when they need the toilet what do they do?
They stop somewhere, go to the toilet (be that a bush or a service station, and dont refuel.

Every discussion around charging, when it isn’t moaning about Ecotricity, tries to forge an umbreakable bond between EV charging and bodily functions, or coffee or eating something.

I mean, in my e-Golf days, had I availed myself of the facilities every 2 hrs on a long trip, I’d be empty of bladder but morbidly obese and bouncing off the ceiling from caffeine intake.
Well, 2 hours is recommended irerspective of fuel type, but i could do 3-4 hours in my EV without stopping if wanted. And have done once, though that was down to company-that-cannot-be-named rather than choice.

I get that a lot of EV’ers may be of a certain age, but not every petrol station has a toilet either. And if they do, well, you can still stop at it in an EV.

I get also that people want to do something productive with the 30-40 mins that they’ll be stopped whilst charging, but after you’ve used a loo, you’ve still got a while to wait. There must be some acceptance that you’ve brought into a transport system that does sometimes inconvenience you.
"inconvenience" depends on your perspective. Yep, once in a blue moon I'm inconvenienced because I have to stop for longer than with petrol shoudl i not coincide that with a stop for other reasons.

OTOH throughout the year I am generally " convenienced * " because I dont have to go to a petrol station every week to two weeks, or wait for the five minutes each of those many times I fill up and pay (far more ovearll time than the odd wait, YMM (literally)V of course, nor do i need pay 3x-5x the cost. So, is it inconvenient? IN generally Id say no, theres too much focus on the odd long stop which you have done.

I also recall that in the past, when there was a budget and fuel duty increased by 1p a litre or some such there woudl be massive queues and long waits to fill up before 6pm or whenever the change kicked in, so apparently that wait was OK to save 50p, yet strangely its not OK to wait 20 minutes to get fuel at 1/2 the price even when what goes with that is additional less cumulative time overall waiting to refuel.

* no reference to urination intended
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
"inconvenience" depends on your perspective. Yep, once in a blue moon I'm inconvenienced because I have to stop for longer than with petrol shoudl i not coincide that with a stop for other reasons.

OTOH throughout the year I am generally " convenienced * " because I dont have to go to a petrol station every week to two weeks, or wait for the five minutes each of those many times I fill up and pay (far more ovearll time than the odd wait, YMM (literally)V of course, nor do i need pay 3x-5x the cost. So, is it inconvenient? IN generally Id say no, theres too much focus on the odd long stop which you have done.

I also recall that in the past, when there was a budget and fuel duty increased by 1p a litre or some such there woudl be massive queues and long waits to fill up before 6pm or whenever the change kicked in, so apparently that wait was OK to save 50p, yet strangely its not OK to wait 20 minutes to get fuel at 1/2 the price even when what goes with that is additional less cumulative time overall waiting to refuel.

* no reference to urination intended
I don’t think we’re disagreeing, I was making the point that it’s not up to charge point providers to find new and interesting things for you to do when you have to stop for an hour.

As for the saving 1p a litre on petrol, yes, money does strange things to people. Witness the ‘wild west’ days when Ecotricity chargers were free at MSAs!
 

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I don’t think we’re disagreeing, I was making the point that it’s not up to charge point providers to find new and interesting things for you to do when you have to stop for an hour.

As for the saving 1p a litre on petrol, yes, money does strange things to people. Witness the ‘wild west’ days when Ecotricity chargers were free at MSAs!
But it does help cover the charge providers costs if they can add a Costa Coffee (other brands are available) to the site at the planning stage. As I mentioned in the new Ecotricity thread earlier, the problem is that the charge providers should be concentrating their efforts on doing the one thing they claim to do best and leave all the other "bits" to someone else, but too many want to do too much, thus reducing their overall impact.
Luckily, I always carry a small trowel with me a just **** where I like, facilities or not ;)
 

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The point is that in my ICE on a road trip the motorway service stops are purely comfort breaks. The car was filled with 400 miles range before leaving home using the nearest cheapo petrol available. Only business drivers who are not picking up the bill will buy petrol on a motorway. In my EV I still need that same comfort break at the same distance but unless the EV hub has those facilities it means two stops.

A typical run for me is heading to the Lakes where I stop at Moto Lancaster for that quick toilet visit and a half hopeful try at the EcoT pumps. Usually that then needs another stop at the Lancaster Park n Ride hub to fill the car though. An excellent hub with zero facilities.

That is the problem. A toilet stop with flaky chargers. Or a charge stop with flaky toilet availability. And as EVs at present need at least half an hour and ICE only a few minutes the absence of a toilet at a convenient ( no pun intended) time is highlighted.
 

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A charging stop means that you will be spending a significant amount of time in one location. In 45 minutes of driving you're reasonably likely to pass somewhere with a toilet. You need to have toilets anywhere that people spend a period of time, otherwise people will just go anyway.

It might not be an issue for you personally, but there's loads of people who need to use a toilet regularly. Families with kids in particular. The infrastructure needs to smooth the transition to EVs in the shortest time possible. That means providing the chargers along side decent amenities to make them practical for everyone.
 

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It's not healthy to hold it in for hours at a time. I don't want kidney/bladder issues when I'm old.
 

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The point is that in my ICE on a road trip the motorway service stops are purely comfort breaks.
In my higher mileage days (ICE) nearly all my stops were for the toilet, and as mentioned earlier those are an endangered species in many areas. I have made use of a lot of trees and hedges, especially when an unexpected delay makes the planned stop out of range.
Even petrol stations without a toilet usually get a miss from me ...
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
A charging stop means that you will be spending a significant amount of time in one location. In 45 minutes of driving you're reasonably likely to pass somewhere with a toilet. You need to have toilets anywhere that people spend a period of time, otherwise people will just go anyway.

It might not be an issue for you personally, but there's loads of people who need to use a toilet regularly. Families with kids in particular. The infrastructure needs to smooth the transition to EVs in the shortest time possible. That means providing the chargers along side decent amenities to make them practical for everyone.
I know this, and I’m a ‘family with kids’ guy, it’s just every discussion I see is letting the perfect be the enemy of the good.

What next, charge stops with play facilities for the kids?

I need to use the toilet, who doesn’t, but it’s hardly a hardship to stop for an additional 5 minutes somewhere to do that if required.

Or are somehow people tuning their bladder requirements to the charging hubs with facilities?
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
The point is that in my ICE on a road trip the motorway service stops are purely comfort breaks. The car was filled with 400 miles range before leaving home using the nearest cheapo petrol available. Only business drivers who are not picking up the bill will buy petrol on a motorway. In my EV I still need that same comfort break at the same distance but unless the EV hub has those facilities it means two stops.

A typical run for me is heading to the Lakes where I stop at Moto Lancaster for that quick toilet visit and a half hopeful try at the EcoT pumps. Usually that then needs another stop at the Lancaster Park n Ride hub to fill the car though. An excellent hub with zero facilities.

That is the problem. A toilet stop with flaky chargers. Or a charge stop with flaky toilet availability. And as EVs at present need at least half an hour and ICE only a few minutes the absence of a toilet at a convenient ( no pun intended) time is highlighted.
So for some, it’s the issue of being ‘trapped’ somewhere for 45 mins or so without toilet facilities?
 

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So for some, it’s the issue of being ‘trapped’ somewhere for 45 mins or so without toilet facilities?
Why do you ask that with a hint of surprise?

And it's not just that 45 minutes. It's the extra time it takes to drive to find the next toilet as well. That could lead to severe discomfort and leg crossing. This is why I always choose the first stop at a known reliable facility and getting a charge there is a bonus. That way, waiting 45 minutes at a charger that is 20 minutes down the road does not turn into a bladder rage incident.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Why do you ask that with a hint of surprise?

And it's not just that 45 minutes. It's the extra time it takes to drive to find the next toilet as well. That could lead to severe discomfort and leg crossing. This is why I always choose the first stop at a known reliable facility and getting a charge there is a bonus. That way, waiting 45 minutes at a charger that is 20 minutes down the road does not turn into a bladder rage incident.
If there is any surprise, it’s that people seem to be leaving the issue of the lack of public toilets at the door of EV charging to resolve.

My point was though, ICE drivers have the same toilet infrastructure, yet I’ve never heard the complaint that petrol stations don’t have toIlets. Not to the same extent anyway.

Another quick stop isn’t the end of the world, and if you can’t manage 45 mins anywhere without a toilet, then see a Dr or become self sufficient?
 

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Charging first, facilities second. You can always stop somewhere else for those, like everybody else does.
Only when the EV can also do 400 miles and recharge to 100% in under 5m like a liquid fueled car.

I do the same as this with my current ICE car for long trips:
The point is that in my ICE on a road trip the motorway service stops are purely comfort breaks. The car was filled with 400 miles range before leaving home
Until then, any stops for re-charge MUST go together with comfort breaks. It just doesn't make sense to stop, recharge then stop again for comfort break.

As a family man, you ought to know the horror of kids waking up because car has slowed down. Driving ~200 miles EV forces regular stops and it doesn't make sense having to stuff the kids back into the car twice just because public infrastructure sucks.
 

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Do ICE drivers just go in the tank then?
Well back in my ICE owning days I'd go to the provided facilities. I've yet to go to a petrol station that doesn't have a loo or be part of a supermarket that has a loo. In fact I've stopped at petrol stations when not needing fuel solely because they'll have a loo, no mater how bad it might be because one of my kids has been bustin'.

When picking transit rapids along a route I usually check if there are facilities near by. Because the last thing I want is a kid being bored or needing a pee with no where to go.
 

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.................... if you can’t manage 45 mins anywhere without a toilet, then see a Dr or become self sufficient?
But on a road trip, it isn't just that 45 minutes charging. That 45 minutes sat in a carpark without any facilities is after a two-hour drive to that charge stop. And after a two-hour drive most people are ready for a leg stretch and a coffee as well. This is a need for total facilities when an extended break is forced by EV's requiring longer to refuel. And if an EV charge provider doesn't recognise this when building a new hub they will fail unless it is co-located with other businesses within walking distance that offer a full range of facilities.
 
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