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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
What is the problem with setting up a charging point attached to a coin operated meter?

Roll up, plug in and put a few pound coins in the meter. When the money is used up it will shut off. Return, unplug, go away.

You get what you pay for/need, no RFID cards, no telemetry, factor in a parking fee, put too much money in, tough, overstay the paid for charging time, parking ticket like most car parks.

The current networks are too complicated and seam to use technology for technology's sake.
 

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Yes and no Paul. This would be ok if consumption were in parallel - example of wifi in a hotel where another user joining has negligible impact on the others.

In the case of EV charging someone needing to take at a slow rate would then occupy the charger for longer than someone taking at a higher rate. There would have to be some kind of differential pricing for that.
 

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What is the problem with setting up a charging point attached to a coin operated meter?
The problem as I see it is that it isn't the car park that is charging the fee. It is the network operator... Chargemaster, Elektrmotive, CYC etc.

The network operators would be the ones responsible for emptying the machines... not the car park.

I can't see it working tbh.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Easy. Example:
15p / kWh + £1 / Hour parked
Put in £5
ICE parked for 5 hours, then parking fine. (Note, parking fee needs to be above other parking slots to deter ICEing)
Rapid @ 80 kW = 30kWh / 15 minutes, then parking fine.
Fast @ 7kW = 20kWh / 1.5 hours, then parking fine.

I think I have the calculations right? If you take less charge you may stay longer.
Obviously the car park owner charges the network a ground rent and the network empties the meter. In the case of the current free charging and parking set lower or no rates.
 

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With smartphone/ANPR technology available there's a case to be made for EV spaces/chargers being 'pay by smartphone only'. The app could be set to warn an ICE driver they were blocking a charger and to move their car to another space.
 

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Obviously the car park owner charges the network a ground rent and the network empties the meter. In the case of the current free charging and parking set lower or no rates.
The problem is that this assumption is incorrect.

The car park normally doesn't charge any rent.

Then, how will a network operator empty meters? That would require them to operate an army of collectors throughout the country emptying meters!

Nope, I don't think it makes any sense to have cash payment for charging where the charging point is operated by a network.

All these ideas are sounds suggestions but just not practical particularly as how the current networks are organised and operate. The car parks are completely separate from the network operators. It is difficult enough to get them to create an interface to their status info. Imagine how difficult it would be to interface ANPR and car park charging systems to them :eek:

Unfortunately, car park operators, and other donors of charging point locations, seem to consider the charging network operator as responsible for all aspects of the EV charging at their location. This will have to change but for now I see little likelihood of there being much integration between car park and charging network operators. I hope I am wrong!
 

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Cash payments for parking, and in time other vending type services are dead. One of the biggest overheads is paying a guy to go around and empty all the meters. Otherwise your machine goes out of service, FAIL.

The concept of pay per hour, parking meter style I get but coins in the slot, no sense at all other than job creation. Nineties man with his bag of pound coins in the glove box needs a smartphone app, contactless payment card, or good ole text messaging to park at most of the sites I use today.
 

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Got to agree with @PaulMorris cash for such services is certainly being phased out. As mentioned, the cost of emptying the machines is hugely significant, as it has to be done daily. The lure of cash in such machines is too much for many a vandal to resist, and vandalised machines mean no service when you come to charge. Plus the inconvenience of carrying change is a practice I'm happy to avoid as much as possible.

@Ian is right that there is a need for a more universal solution to accessing charge points. The selection of cards required to drive and charge an EV nationally, plus the associated costs of buying said cards is somewhat ridiculous, and very confusing.
 

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Cheaper not to charge :)
Well said Paul. That is exactly it.
There are retail parks that simply accept that free parking is part of the business model and then work out how to deter abusers.
And that is how I see the charging structure developing.
The charging is free with no ties. It becomes part of the attraction of you wanting to be there.

Until we have speed of charging so fast that it is disassociated with parking as we have with filling an ice-age car, only then can you sensibly have a "charge for charging system".
 

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What is the problem with setting up a charging point attached to a coin operated meter?

Roll up, plug in and put a few pound coins in the meter. When the money is used up it will shut off. Return, unplug, go away.

You get what you pay for/need, no RFID cards, no telemetry, factor in a parking fee, put too much money in, tough, overstay the paid for charging time, parking ticket like most car parks.

The current networks are too complicated and seam to use technology for technology's sake.
Then you'd have to employ people to come and empty the meters, thus (inevitably) pushing up the price of charging even higher.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
So why does the model work for parking meters and Council car parks?
Who pays for the engineers that are traveling around fixing the nonfunctioning charging points at the moment?
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
We do. That's why your council tax is so high. It's stupid and there's no incentive to change.
Correct. Better they collect the money from working points (together with money from the ordinary meters, as at the moment) than fix those that don't. Less people employed overall = savings.
 

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Correct. Better they collect the money from working points (together with money from the ordinary meters, as at the moment) than fix those that don't. Less people employed overall = savings.
That's just the start of it. It's lazy job creation - fixing a problem by throwing people at it. As a nation we already have trouble filling unskilled jobs as people expect to earn more with their ever improving education. Then you have the cash handling issues. Cash businesses of any scale are going to become expensive to run as handling, processing and accounting is just such a pain. Not to mention the cost of losses. Dealing in actual money is no longer attractive given the alternatives that exist today. Ok, I work in the mobile technology industry so my view of the future is optimistically biased to technology optimised solutions. Under the cosy blanket of semi-realistic strategic thinking I can see a not too distant future where cash as we know it ceases to exist. Certainly coins, and that's before we consider how crypto-currencies might play a part in the future. Even the Bank of England has a view.

Ok, some people put that time horizon at 20 years. The optimistic side of me thinks that reality could become commonplace, if not ubiquitous within 10.

Cash was King. Long live(d) the King. The Kind is dead(dying).

Seriously, a man in a peaked cap driving round all day to collect the days takings from all the charging posts. If the charge for the electricity consumed is reasonable enough for people to want to use them, I wonder if the takings would even cover the cost of paying a guy the time to do the collection.

We're blurring two issues really. Charge post reliability, and cost of charging. The issue of reliability is a very real problem. Simplifying the posts a la ZCW model is one way to handle it. And why can't that work - either:
a) 'free' as a means to attract captive customers (worth a lot to business btw, especially considering the average demographic of an EV driver right now!)
b) 'free' as in included in your cost of parking, paid however you're currently paying for it. It's a draw to get EV drivers into car park A vs. car park B and pay them the parking fee.

I genuinely think the cost of electricity for charging kind of outweighs the costs of recovering that charge.

Where you have to pay, then consolidating and standardising the methods of access: readers, RFID, NFC, paired credit card in slot for ID would concentrate the technology down to a standard, and by doing so likely improve the reliability of the technology side as efforts are converging towards improvement rather than the divergent state we currently have. Time will heal.

Of course, if your business model relies on the back-alley low-ball sales technique of getting people hooked and dependent on your free charging product while creaming government subsidies to build out your business empire then hiking the prices to reap rich rewards out of well-heeled EV drivers, then metering and billing technology is vital to you. Hell, at Chargemaster's pricing we deserve valet parking from a guy in a top hat - who I guess is the same guy that can be emptying their coin meters ;-)
 

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The only park and ride I am familar with is Sandon near Chelmsford and have seen two Leaf tethered there so that was it as far as charging goes for so many hours. It's generally empty most of the time and when I did need it to be sure of making the last 5 miles home had to phone up to get it remotely opened.
If however along the perimeter fence there were fifty spaces each where a suitable socket gave free charging, no card required, just plug-in and go and catch the bus, I wouldn't mind betting the installation cost and reliability of those fifty spaces was far lower than the existing set up. And as the number of ev on our roads grows so those token (can't think of a better word) installations will just look more and more silly
 

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Hi Adam. Please don't take this the wrong way, but adding the same message, advertising a service (even a free one) to lots of threads, will end up being viewed as spam.
 

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OK and thank you - message received!
I would like more people to use my chargers though. I put them in 6 months ago, they are just 1 mile from the main arterial route into Cornwall but they have only been used 5 times!
And they are charged by PV cells so could not be more green.
 

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OK and thank you - message received!
I would like more people to use my chargers though. I put them in 6 months ago, they are just 1 mile from the main arterial route into Cornwall but they have only been used 5 times!
And they are charged by PV cells so could not be more green.
Then start your own thread in the charging locations section and stop hijacking others! ;-)
 

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OK and thank you - message received!
I would like more people to use my chargers though. I put them in 6 months ago, they are just 1 mile from the main arterial route into Cornwall but they have only been used 5 times!
And they are charged by PV cells so could not be more green.
I've just carried out some moving/editing for you, as I had several SPAM reports... although well intentioned people still get upset. :D

Please see here for your new, dedicated topic: http://speakev.com/threads/free-cha...rivers-devon-cornwall-border.2049/#post-17631 :)
 
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