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Hi, had a bit of a shock yesterday, though suppose I've been spoilt by all the free chargers still around? I went east from Brighton to visit Great Dixter garden - for a cheering up visit before winter really locks in. It's about 50 miles each way so discovered a Rapid charger in the otherwise barren wastes, don't think there's many EVs out that way. This was in a small health centre car park, accessible, working, pleasant surroundings, Rapid combo post, CYC provider. Had a little sign on it that I only noticed when my half hour was up - there was a charging charge.

I looked the details up more carefully then: 25p per minute...what? £7.50
I checked it out with CYC today and it is indeed the correct charge as selected by the owner (the health centre presumably) and I couldn't get any more info about what the highest charge level may be or whether lots of CYC places are similar or may be in the future. I didn't want to irritate the respondent any further - I've had some great help in an emergency from this supplier. However I have started to wonder whether we might all be eventually ambushed by rapid price rises as station installers rake back their investment.

Thinking about it, not such a huge price but anyone able to do the maths? and anyone got a feel for what charges may go up to and when? Or is this question where angels fear to tread.
 

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Charger charges vary enormously, as you've found, from 0 to extortionate. CYC operated rapids vary depending on who owns them as they manage the system but don't set the rate.

In Dorset, for example, the CYC rapids cost £4/hour then a lot more after that, although this is likely to increase to £6/hour next year. This is set by Dorset CC and for what it's worth I think £4 is ok but £6 is not, because they don't charge above about 80% even if you reach that point after half an hour so at £4 for 12kWh which I paid it's more expensive that petrol. I applaud DCC for taking the initiative though as its a very useful network.

Current dogma states that the market will decide what an acceptable rate is. Hmm, not that there's any actual competition for charging customers in most parts of the country so not sure how this mechanism will work.
 

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Thinking about it, not such a huge price but anyone able to do the maths? and anyone got a feel for what charges may go up to and when? Or is this question where angels fear to tread.
The almost total rejection of somewhat overpriced chargers in Hampshire led after a few months to a reassessment by the 'partners' and a reduction/ adjustment in the price structure.
For the future the increasing range of EVs will further change the market place. As GreyDad has said Dorset, at present, seems reasonably priced. Time will tell.
 

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Putting up prices is counterproductive and will only make people avoid them like the plague especially as ranges increase.
Personally I think the availability and ownership of extended-range cars is unlikely to outpace general EV take-up to the extent that charge points are ever likely to be overprovided.
 

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And sadly underprovision is a surefire way to ensure you can keep overpricing
 

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Well I live out that way Fran!

I don't see many other EVs about although I know someone who's recently bought a tesla after having a Leaf and also an etron owner who previously had an ampera.
 

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Charger charges vary enormously, as you've found, from 0 to extortionate. CYC operated rapids vary depending on who owns them as they manage the system but don't set the rate.

In Dorset, for example, the CYC rapids cost £4/hour then a lot more after that, although this is likely to increase to £6/hour next year. This is set by Dorset CC and for what it's worth I think £4 is ok but £6 is not, because they don't charge above about 80% even if you reach that point after half an hour so at £4 for 12kWh which I paid it's more expensive that petrol. I applaud DCC for taking the initiative though as its a very useful network.

Current dogma states that the market will decide what an acceptable rate is. Hmm, not that there's any actual competition for charging customers in most parts of the country so not sure how this mechanism will work.
As someone who never used a public charger where I have had to pay, just how much % of the charges in this example would go to Dorset CC and what would be the CYC portion?
 

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No idea! :D
 

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Hi, had a bit of a shock yesterday, though suppose I've been spoilt by all the free chargers still around? I went east from Brighton to visit Great Dixter garden - for a cheering up visit before winter really locks in. It's about 50 miles each way so discovered a Rapid charger in the otherwise barren wastes, don't think there's many EVs out that way. This was in a small health centre car park, accessible, working, pleasant surroundings, Rapid combo post, CYC provider. Had a little sign on it that I only noticed when my half hour was up - there was a charging charge.

I looked the details up more carefully then: 25p per minute...what? £7.50
Herstmonceux by any chance? Lol..... The post was also taking ecotricity cards for a while, but I haven't been back there recently to see if it still accepts them since they introduced the charges... There is another thread on here about that....
 

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We see a never-ending diatribe from those who think that charging money for electricity which is currently free is the solution to all EV problems. There is no evidence whatsoever for this - drivers avoid using expensive pumps.

Whether my 30 minutes at an Ecotricity pump costs me £0.00, £4.50, £7.50 or £12.50 won't affect the behaviour of the tosspots who come along and think they own it. They will simply be marginally poorer tosspots.

From my point of view, I am acutely aware that Britain has the second-highest road fuel prices in the world - only Uruguay is more expensive than Britain, according to the BBC. So if somebody wants to give me road fuel for free or minimal cost, that's fine - it's simply payback for the 40 years I have been paying excessive road fuel duty in the UK.
 

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From my point of view, I am acutely aware that Britain has the second-highest road fuel prices in the world - only Uruguay is more expensive than Britain, according to the BBC. So if somebody wants to give me road fuel for free or minimal cost, that's fine - it's simply payback for the 40 years I have been paying excessive road fuel duty in the UK.
Yes, but unfortunately it won't last.... we will all end up having to pay something in the future.... and therefore it is worth having the discussion now about what people are prepared to pay for such a service... The government will eventually end up taxing EV electricity the same as fuel, because this country is now use to low levels of direct taxation. Therefore the government has to make up the short-fall with indirect taxation, hence fuel duty, VAT etc.

The reason they whoop duty on fuel is because:

1) It is an essential commodity, in high demand by many people
2) It is easy to collect
3) You can always blame the fuel companies for the overall price instead of the tax

As EV adoption increases, point (1) will immediately come to fruition, (2) is a no brainer, (3) they can blame the charging companies!
 

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Duty on petrol/diesel is like duty on alcohol. To apply duty to EV charging would be like applying duty to bottled water and fruit. Penalising the healthier choice can surely never be penalised by our government?
 

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Duty on petrol/diesel is like duty on alcohol. To apply duty to EV charging would be like applying duty to bottled water and fruit. Penalising the healthier choice can surely never be penalised by our government?
It won't stop them doing it... they will simply create legislation to overcome such difficulties.... The only reason EV drivers get subsidies for buying their cars has got nothing to do with the environment - per se. It is because the government has to meet certain targets for emissions and it is the most cost effective way for them to do that. As soon as there is mass EV adoption, the subsidies will dry up - the solar panel industry is a good example of this where we have seen the continuing reduction in FIT tariffs.

So enjoy the party while it lasts - it is only a party - and it will end - probably sooner than we think.
 

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But how could HMRC tax EV electricity?
EV miles definitely but not electricity. I very rarely use my OLEV monitored home charger.
I just find my EVSE more convenient and better suited to my solar. Saying that, even at night i use my EVSE.

If HMRC increase say the VAT on home or business fuel there will be a public outcry as it will impact the poorest harder, those least likely to have a shiny new EV.

Biggest problem i see going forward is the agreed price per kwh for the new nuclear programs.
That in itself will increase electricity costs disproportionately.
 

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Duty on petrol/diesel is like duty on alcohol. To apply duty to EV charging would be like applying duty to bottled water and fruit. Penalising the healthier choice can surely never be penalised by our government?
My other prediction? You will start to see big oil companies taking major stake holdings in electrical energy generation and distribution companies.... why? to protect their margins as our dependence on oil and fuel reduces....
 

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But how could HMRC tax EV electricity?
EV miles definitely but not electricity. I very rarely use my OLEV monitored home charger.
I just find my EVSE more convenient and better suited to my solar. Saying that, even at night i use my EVSE.

If HMRC increase say the VAT on home or business fuel there will be a public outcry as it will impact the poorest harder, those least likely to have a shiny new EV.
At the risk of straying off topic.... unfortunately, there is an ever increasing gap in this country between the "haves" and the "have nots".... I suspect the "haves" probably outweigh the "have nots".... already seeing some evidence of that in the results from the recent General Election..... Yes, people will bitch and moan (don't we always?) but in the end they will settle down and suck it up. Think how much the price of petrol/diesel has gone up over the last 30 years.... now, if it jumped overnight, yes there would be an outcry... but small, imperceptible increases, and after a while people get used to it and don't complain. Remember all the anger over £1.00 a litre for petrol? Don't hear so many people complaining now do we? They will find a way to recoup lost taxation if there is mass adoption of EVs.
 

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My other prediction? You will start to see big oil companies taking major stake holdings in electrical energy generation and distribution companies.... why? to protect their margins as our dependence on oil and fuel reduces....
These multinationals will fight hard to keep control of transport in whichever form it takes. Governments will bow to their demands. Hydrogen is a step in that direction. World economies rely on it.

Imagine the middle east if oil was no longer our major need that we could not provide domestically.
 
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