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Have you not looked at an electricity bill lately ?

Almost the bottom line will read " +vat @ 5% = £***" !

The 5% is a (temporary ?) dispensation and could easily be raised to the standard rate or even beyond.
Thats electricity. I specifically said EV electricity! I am fully aware of 5% tax on domestic fuel. My point was they have no viable means to slap the levels of duty there is on petrol etc onto pure EV electricity.
 
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Thats electricity. I specifically said EV electricity! I am fully aware of 5% tax on domestic fuel. My point was they have no viable means to slap the levels of duty there is on petrol etc onto pure EV electricity.
Quite so - but the implication was that it isn't already taxed and of course it is. Indeed, even the 'free' electricity provided by e.g. Ecotricity will probably have paid some tax even if the consumer isn't chipping in.

Even if some obscure regulation was drawn up to make people declare how much electricity they'd put into their EV, I'm sure it would be widely abused. OLEV subsidised chargers have a meter attached which reports back your usage but it would be very easy to defeat one or of course most people would just revert to using their slow charging leads (with 13A plug).
 

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Quite so - but the implication was that it isn't already taxed and of course it is. Indeed, even the 'free' electricity provided by e.g. Ecotricity will probably have paid some tax even if the consumer isn't chipping in.

Even if some obscure regulation was drawn up to make people declare how much electricity they'd put into their EV, I'm sure it would be widely abused. OLEV subsidised chargers have a meter attached which reports back your usage but it would be very easy to defeat one or of course most people would just revert to using their slow charging leads (with 13A plug).
Or take the SIM Card out ;)
 

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Quite so - but the implication was that it isn't already taxed and of course it is. Indeed, even the 'free' electricity provided by e.g. Ecotricity will probably have paid some tax even if the consumer isn't chipping in.
One reason given for the high price of electricity from the rapids in Hampshire is that they attract 20% VAT. EV electricity is already taxed at the pump.
 

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Discussion Starter · #45 ·
Thats electricity. I specifically said EV electricity! I am fully aware of 5% tax on domestic fuel. My point was they have no viable means to slap the levels of duty there is on petrol etc onto pure EV electricity.
Why not, they managed to slap the 'renewables tax' onto renewables!
 

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Quite so - but the implication was that it isn't already taxed and of course it is.
Why not, they managed to slap the 'renewables tax' onto renewables!
Eric, there was no implication.

Fran, because of the different sources that are available, i.e. I charge from solar (unmetered), from my home charger (metered), my EVSE (unmetered), from work on my EVSE (unmetered), from rapids (metered), from public charge points (metered). If they charge you for your mileage there is no ambiguity, every month you put in your mileage to the DVLA and they bill accordingly similar to online fuel accounts. Anyone found fiddling would have the book thrown at them. Rule #1 don't steal from the taxman. I am not suggesting it but can forsee it.
 

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Eric, there was no implication.

Fran, because of the different sources that are available, i.e. I charge from solar (unmetered), from my home charger (metered), my EVSE (unmetered), from work on my EVSE (unmetered), from rapids (metered), from public charge points (metered). If they charge you for your mileage there is no ambiguity, every month you put in your mileage to the DVLA and they bill accordingly similar to online fuel accounts. Anyone found fiddling would have the book thrown at them. Rule #1 don't steal from the taxman. I am not suggesting it but can forsee it.
Not a chance of that happening it would be to difficult to administer but with the proliferation of ANPR cameras on major routes it would be easy to implement a pay per mile system, a bit like the London congestion charge, they would even be able to give you speeding fines for getting between cameras too quickly. :eek:
 

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Discussion Starter · #48 ·
Not a chance of that happening it would be to difficult to administer but with the proliferation of ANPR cameras on major routes it would be easy to implement a pay per mile system, a bit like the London congestion charge, they would even be able to give you speeding fines for getting between cameras too quickly. :eek:
New TV programme coming up: "Live Unseen Off-grid"- £1,000,000 prize money
 

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Why not, they managed to slap the 'renewables tax' onto renewables!
Worth noting the VAT on renewables is 5%. Although I personaly consider it to be 5% too much.

I also find the £5000 so called government grant to be complicated and hidden nonsense around how much you really get off after dealers produce their own magic figures for a quote. And an EV sales still has 20% VAT, so if you buy an EV for £20,000 after the so called government discount, about £4000 is VAT, just nonsense really, whats it all about?
 

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I also find the £5000 so called government grant to be complicated and hidden nonsense around how much you really get off after dealers produce their own magic figures for a quote. And an EV sales still has 20% VAT, so if you buy an EV for £20,000 after the so called government discount, about £4000 is VAT, just nonsense really, whats it all about?
I've said it before (either here or on another forum) but that £5k (quite predictably) ended up in the manufacturers' or dealers' pockets. They'll have worked out what they think people might be prepared for their car (just as they do for any 'ordinary' car and in neither case need that bear any relationship to the cost of production) then added on the £5k to give themselves an extra profit margin. Never forget that today's manufacturers & dealers are the spiritual descendants of yesteryear's horse traders.:D

I'm not altogether surprised that vat still applies (where else would you think the government could find most of the £5k) though disappointed that a lower or even zero rate couldn't have been implemented.
 

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Discussion Starter · #52 ·
Herstmonceux by any chance? Lol..... The post was also taking ecotricity cards for a while, but I haven't been back there recently to see if it still accepts them since they introduced the charges... There is another thread on here about that....
Hiya what's the other thread? Can't find it..
 

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Discussion Starter · #53 ·
Have spent a couple of quiet weeks within the comfy 40 mile range, occasionally collecting a Rapid charge locally. Time to be out and about again soon, so this morning went back for a surf around the charging sites for my next expedition. Pleased to discover a collection of new Rapids in the South-East - thank-you CYC - making life easier for EV travellers.
However the warm glow was short-lived: most seem to be applying the charge price that made me start this thread:
£3.50 first ten mins, 25p per minute after that, is this becoming the norm around here? So was prompted to wade through the sums, not easy with miles/litres/etc, isn't it time the UK was properly decimal? Anyway...
Trying to use practical roundings up: arrive at charger with 10m left, half-hour charge ok but another 10mins or so to get max charge if on a long journey: works out at about £10 to full charge. So lets say £12.00/100miles
Driving an ICE: say 40miles/gal, lead-free petrol ( had to consult fuel economy website here) approx 7 miles per litre at say, 110p/litre. Works out at £15.70/100miles.
Now given the grief and time probably expended in achieving that 100 miles in my LEAF compared to a quick half-fill at a petrol station? Well I reckon that puts us EV drivers back into the "bloody minded idealist" category - don't you???
 

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Trying to use practical roundings up: arrive at charger with 10m left, half-hour charge ok but another 10mins or so to get max charge if on a long journey: works out at about £10 to full charge. So lets say £12.00/100miles???
@ £3.50 first ten mins, 25p per minute after that, I make that (£3.50 for 10 mins) + (20m @ 25p = £5) = £8.50 for half an hour and another 10 mins (or so ?) would be another £2.50 (or so ?) giving total cost of £11(or so ?)

Driving an ICE: say 40miles/gal, lead-free petrol ( had to consult fuel economy website here) approx 7 miles per litre at say, 110p/litre. Works out at £15.70/100miles.
That's much easier to work out without the multiple conversions. £1.10 per litre is almost exactly £5 /gallon; £5 per 40 miles is £12.50 per 100 miles

Your two examples are therefore even closer than you thought ! Buying electricity at those rates is only a penny a mile cheaper than using a petrol engine vehicle.

But I think we're all agreed that those rates would represent a 'distress purchase'. For local trips with all electricity bought at home (E7 @ 6.5ppu) I've calculated my costs at 1.7 pence per mile for the last three weeks (since being able to meter it accurately) and the day that included the one longer trip I've done (it was only about 50 miles but took in two free charges) worked out at 0.76 ppm
 
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So even a distress purchase is cheaper than an ICE! Given that the grief you refer to is made up for by the sybaritic pleasure of driving an EV, I don't see the problem. :cool:
 

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To be honest, sometimes it is handy having chargers with a steepish price to use. I'm sitting here at the moment on the new rapid outside Crawley Town Hall. It is the same £3.50 for 10 mins and then 25 per min after. I know it doesn't get used so much because people tend to go for the free ones. So if trying to get somewhere quickly it's nice for a quick splash and dash. 15 minutes should see me safely home.
 

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Imagine the picture- either long queues at free public chargers - cant see that, or EV cars become the domain of those people who commute within the safe range of the vehicle and only ever charge at home.
 
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