[Paul]

Or so says AutoExpress...

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/tesla/model-s/84927/tesla-model-s-2014-review

Not really sure why a car not yet launched should have its infrastructure fully in place already, or if they get their sums quite right, but all in all in it's a generally positive review of the Model S I think.

 

[Kevin Sharpe]

or if they get their sums quite right

They seem to have forgotten that the Model S can gain 60 miles range per hour using simple and reliable 22kW AC Type 2 Charging Stations. This includes all the dual AC/DC 'rapid' chargers.

IMO with a range ~300 miles most of the Model S charging in the UK will be on AC Charging Stations not Superchargers.

 

[jontracey]

Kevin can you point me to these 22kw stations you refer to all the type 2s I have come across seem to be limited to 7kw.

Not sure what the ecotricity AC chargers are but would be good to know where the 22kw are for when the tesla arrives

thx

 

[Kevin Sharpe]

Kevin can you point me to these 22kw stations you refer to all the type 2s I have come across seem to be limited to 7kw

All today's dual AC/DC 'rapid' chargers at motorway services, ikea, etc., include a 43kW Type 2 connector that will charge a Model S at ~22kW. Here's some example hardware with Type 2, CCS, and CHAdeMO connectors;

Open Charge Map is being updated with many new 'rapid' locations so keep an eye on that http://openchargemap.org/site/

Also lots more 22kW being installed at hospitality locations but they are not announced so I can't share today.... be assured that Tesla are working hard to ensure that Model S owners will have no problems charging anywhere in the UK

 

[knoxie]

I wonder how many 85kwh cars they have sold to the UK? 60kwh is 200 mile range so I think those owners will still be seeking faster charging times, they do sell an adapter so that the Model-S can use the chademo DC side of the charger that is one possible option in the short term, Britain is such a tiny place by comparison you would think it would be easy for them over here?

Even with the 85kwh car you will run the pack down low on longer journeys if you want to sit at 80-85mph like most other cars do on the motorway, reliable Rapid charging is important keeping these cars moving long distances at reasonable speeds, you don’t want to spend that kind of money and sit in the slow lane.

 

[Kevin Sharpe]

I wonder how many 85kwh cars they have sold to the UK?

It will be the majority like in the US... why bother charging when away from home unless you really need it... range completely transforms the ownership experience and if ~80 mile range BEV was the only option when I purchased my car I would have purchased a hybrid.

 

[knoxie]

yes 80 miles is too low but most folks can only just afford that for now, level 2 is still important,we need more 22kw destination chargers for all not just model s, the cars need to change to accept it though like the zoe does there is no perfect ev for me yet, im just starting and you have to start somewhere, Iam so excited about Tesla coming to the UK.

 

[Kevin Sharpe]

yes 80 miles is too low but most folks can only just afford that for now

IMO most people who can afford a new Leaf can afford a new Ampera so it's not really a financial choice... most people I know just want a car and that's why range is important to them.

 

[knoxie]

Yes agreed, would have had an Ampera if not for the lack of dealer interest in selling the car to me, Having the Leaf as our only car is a pretty big step and it is with its limitations thats for sure, still its a fun experiment and I am enjoying it too, the super low second hand value of the Leaf makes it a very attractive second car that would do 100% of the population for most trips, for other trips use the second car.

Sorry to take it off topic here OP, Be interesting to see where the Tesla super chargers are actually located, I know roughly from the map, They need roughly a mega watt of power I assume so one would think them likely being cited near large towns or off junctions close to large towns.

Compared to the US I am thinking its not going to stress Tesla too much getting the network up and running here in the UK? Would love it if there was one on my doorstep, the model S is within my range for Leasing just.. but I would have to make some compromises on spec and maybe not take a holiday for a year or 2! ha ha.

My colleague at works dad is right at the front of the line and is picking his top spec 85kwh car up in April, going to be fun seeing that up close, not seen one yet.

 

[Kevin Sharpe]

They need roughly a mega watt of power

Tesla have said they intend to use battery storage at the charging locations to remove peak demand... in the US this is imperative because the price you pay for electricity is based on the peak demand you place on the grid.

EV range kills much of the requirement for charging when away from home... I only need public charging when driving more than ~200 miles and with the Model S that becomes ~300 miles which for me is a few trips a year... if you think this through to its logical conclusion then rapid charging is only needed to extend range on very long trips (assuming destination charging is available).

 

[knoxie]

Yes i see, its tricky for me as I dont have a long range car so dont have any first hand experience, interesting about the battery storage as well Kevin I didn't know that? solar powering the batteries would be brilliant and as you say would mean they might be able to site them where the like maybe even off the beaten track a little utilizing a nearby field full of solar panels!

And yes destination charging particularly for larger capacity cars such as the model S is very important, Imagine someone like me who lives in the middle of the country, loves Cornwall and wants to visit every year buys a Model S, its not likely a super charger will exist in Cornwall, making Level-2 ~ 22kW a must have at your holiday destination or at least nearby as you cant safely charge it at any useful speed off a 13A socket, which is where the ZCW network comes in to effect, very cool, how many of them are 22kW at the moment? be great to see that expand.

 

[jontracey]

I wonder how many 85kwh cars they have sold to the UK? 60kwh is 200 mile range so I think those owners will still be seeking faster charging times, they do sell an adapter so that the Model-S can use the chademo DC side of the charger that is one possible option in the short term, Britain is such a tiny place by comparison you would think it would be easy for them over here?

Even with the 85kwh car you will run the pack down low on longer journeys if you want to sit at 80-85mph like most other cars do on the motorway, reliable Rapid charging is important keeping these cars moving long distances at reasonable speeds, you don’t want to spend that kind of money and sit in the slow lane.

I specced mine with 85kw for that exact reason I really dont like poodling along at 55 on the motorway, very few of my journeys will exceed the full range of the 85kw however the odd one will charge either at a supercharger or overnight using 3 or 7kw.

 

[jontracey]

IMO most people who can afford a new Leaf can afford a new Ampera so it's not really a financial choice... most people I know just want a car and that's why range is important to them.

I dont think its that simple, and talking for myself here I wanted a BEV not a hybrid (I sold my prius for the leaf) however the range was acceptable for what I needed it for at that time. Sure if there was a 300 mile option for the leaf I would probably have gone for it.

nearly 3 years on things are a little different I need a bit more range and although the charging networks are getting better they are still not reliable enough or omnipresent.

My own opinion of the Ampera is its a god ugly car, looks like its been magnetised and driven thorough a branch of halfords.

 

[jontracey]

Tesla have said they intend to use battery storage at the charging locations to remove peak demand... in the US this is imperative because the price you pay for electricity is based on the peak demand you place on the grid.

EV range kills much of the requirement for charging when away from home... I only need public charging when driving more than ~200 miles and with the Model S that becomes ~300 miles which for me is a few trips a year... if you think this through to its logical conclusion then rapid charging is only needed to extend range on very long trips (assuming destination charging is available).

Fully agree so should we forget about 22kw and just have 7kw and fast DC only ?

 

[Kevin Sharpe]

Fully agree so should we forget about 22kw and just have 7kw and fast DC only ?

If you want to go out of your way to queue for rapid DC or wait ~15 hours for a full charge on 7kW then sure... personally, I think charging should match customer dwell time and 22kW is therefore perfect at many locations for EV's with large batteries.

 

[Kevin Sharpe]

My own opinion of the Ampera is its a god ugly car, looks like its been magnetised and driven thorough a branch of halfords.

I would say the same about the Leaf but that's not the point... it's a car and needs to meet the requirements of the person who drives it... for many that means they *want* range (even if they don't *need* range).

 

[knoxie]

I actually really like the look of the Ampera its just a shame both dealers were not interested in selling it to a Family man with 2 kids and were steering me towards a Zafira, I got the Leaf because it was a pure EV which was my preference and they (Nissan) actually were keen to sell me the benefit of one, we did some fag packet sums and over 2 years it was miles cheaper than the Zafira.

I think the Leaf is fugly too, however I bought it for other reasons than looks, for some this is important and with the Model S it’s a bonus that the car looks so pretty, I think Nissan were smoking something when they designed the Leaf, however I love how it drives and what powers it, mostly free electricity from my solar panels or the Rapid charger just a few miles from me at the Warwick services.

I am still deciding what my next lease will be, I say that because with the residuals on electric cars the only car you wont loose out on at the moment is a Model S! which I could lease and may still do however I am very tempted by the I3 REX, need another test drive.

85kWh is the only way to go for the Model S, I can see them dropping the 60 just like they did with the 40, maybe when they can ramp up cell production themselves, they are currently using all that Panasonic can supply and more and with the Model X on the horizon and the no doubt take off of the Model S its looking very good for all.

The Leaf is a very good car for people to have as their first taste of an EV, its looking old now compared to what’s out and what is coming, I am sure that Nissan know this and are moving with the times too, Tesla have shook the industry, the Industry now have to wake up and notice else they will get left behind, apart from BMW who are of course running with it.

Enjoy your Model-S John, I would bet you are pretty excited? I would be like a little kid counting down the days till xmas! Equally I am sure that there are many newly signed Leaf owners who are similarly counting down the days too, it’s all good when EV.

 

[Eunicholas]

I love the 22KW Charger it take my zoe from 20% to full in less than one hour

 

[Eunicholas]

http://www.zap-map.com/renault/#x=52.01771/y=-0.74/z=13 click on the Zoe and all chargers that say F+ are 22kw chargers

 

[Eunicholas]

Click on the F+ Image and it will show just 22 kW charges you can charge your Tessler at these