Speak EV - Electric Car Forums banner
1 - 20 of 146 Posts

·
Registered
Corsa-e 2020
Joined
·
1,024 Posts
A DM article penned by the political editor about EVs... yes, that's going to be full of accurate information... NOT!

"Under regulations lodged with the World Trade Organisation, new chargers in the home and workplace will by default not operate from 8am to 11am and 4pm to 10pm.
Owners will be able to override the preset times, to take account of night workers and people who have different schedules.
Public chargers and rapid chargers, on motorways and A-roads, will be exempt."

So just override it and pretend you're a shift worker. Solution. :rolleyes:

I shall now sit back and enjoy reading all the outraged responses.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
201 Posts
Eugh. Standards of journalism are so poor now and the Mail worse than most - the article is typical ‘scare’ which no doubt will provoke even more ‘but the grid will explode’ dross.

It appears that there MAY be a desire to ENCOURAGE drivers to charge off peak to reduce peak demand. The capability to set this ‘as default’ for chargers is there but even if done (doubtful) there would be a user override so it’s a bit like the standard standby time on your TV beings set to 20mins.

Stuff like this provides fuel for the ever-reddening faces of Mail readers and helps hold back any eco-improvements (they were the same with incandescent lightbulbs).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,633 Posts
Despite being pretty typical Mail crap, it is worth remembering that this is precisely why the OZEV grant is only available for smart charge points. The whole idea, although really badly implemented, was to allow charge points to be remotely disabled at times of high grid demand. There was no other logical reason for making the grant dependent on charge points being internet connected. It's exactly the same reason that every single smart meter has a remote disconnect contactor, so that if things get tight then consumers using a lot of power can just be turned off for a time.

This is just a logical extension of the system that has been in place for years for larger commercial/industrial supplies, where users contract on the basis of a tariff versus priority basis. Those that agree to pay more for electricity are the last to be disconnected, those that pay least are the first. It's something that caught out Newcastle airport during the Hornsea/Little Barford incident, because they hadn't realised that by opting for the cheapest tariff they were in the load shedding tranche one group. Took them hours to get all their systems back up and running again after their power was cut in accordance with their contract.
 

·
Registered
Blue BMW i3s 94ah 2018
Joined
·
76 Posts
It's in the Daily Mail, so a good starting position is to consider a number of possibilities - they misunderstood, they chose to misunderstand, they want you to misunderstand, it's designed to be click bait, it’s just fake news In support of their far right agenda.

I recently saw some new charge points. Four rapid 350kW outlets. When all are in use, and taking account of transmission losses, that would represent a very large aero generator somewhere.

There is a smidgeon of truth to the problems facing power companies from the grid down to local distribution over the next few years.
 

·
Registered
Mercedes EQC 400 4matic on order
Joined
·
131 Posts
This is just a logical extension of the system that has been in place for years for larger commercial/industrial supplies, where users contract on the basis of a tariff versus priority basis. Those that agree to pay more for electricity are the last to be disconnected, those that pay least are the first.
In france we can chose the level of our home supply in steps 6kva, 9,12,15,18 etc according to our likely useage. The standing charge reflects the level chosen and if you pull more power than the level paid for the main trip goes and you have to reset and balance out your useage by turning things off. Been in place for years and years. Same sort of rationing idea according to useage. Having the ability to turn off car charging does not seem to exist here as there is no requirement for the wallboxes to be connected to the internet. We are relatively power self sufficient I think and quite “green” in terms of Co2 produced with all the wind and solar but 80% is still nuclear light on Co2 but with all the issues that brings down the line☹I will be moving from a 12kva to 18kva supply as on checking our records we have hit 11kva before on cold winter nights( we heat part of the house and seperate office with electricity). The energy grid give access to granular data via the web or app of your kwh useage in 30min sections across the 24hrs from the day before. Very useful.
The article is just typical of the sort of dreadful fake news used to sway public opinion in one way or another on a subject of choice depending on who is paying. Of course infrastructure is an issue but any sensible goverment will be taking steps now to put in place what is needed to meet the challenge and many across the world are doing so now quite effectively. Where there is a will there is a way.

one thought at least with the french system you can turn your electricity back on immediately and just turn off the last item which caused it to trip you do not have to wait for the electricity company to decide you can be switched back on!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
283 Posts
Why is this anything to do the WTO? Even if it weren't in the Daily Mail, this would smell fishy.

Even if something like this did come to pass, it's pretty mild. Effectively: your charger won't charge in these hours, unless you tell it that you want to. It's the mildest nudge.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,633 Posts
What we do not yet know is what the future plans for making use of both the ability to remotely turn off charge points, or those for remotely turning off power to individual houses via the smart meter disconnect functionality, may be. We know the capability is there, and it's the government, together with the electricity supply industry, that are insisting this functionality be included. It's hard to understand why the government would be so insistent on having such a capability unless there was a plan to use it at some future date. Right now we have zero transparency.

There have been assurances that, for example, the smart meter remote disconnect function will only be used in "extreme circumstances", and would not, for example, normally be used to cut power for non-payment of bills (although it has been used for that, but only in the same way as the long-standing method of removing the main fuse, or removal of the meter, to do this has been used).

There are no signs at all that smart car charge points are anything like at the stage where some sort of central control system could start turning them off, yet we know that the government have insisted that this functionality be included in all grant-funded charge points. That strongly suggests that there may be a future intent to implement this, which would make every bit as much sense as the existing load shedding arrangements and the provisions built in to all smart meters to help with this.

It would be interesting to know the detail of what's going on behind the scenes. I suspect nothing much is at all joined up at all, and that the smart charge point insistence is every bit as flaky and ill-thought through as SMETS 1 smart meters were.
 

·
Premium Member
VW ID.3 1st Edition & Tesla M3 LR
Joined
·
7,184 Posts
I predict increased sales of UPS systems to fish fanciers, vivarium owners or anybody else who really needs power to be on to support something important.

More seriously though, it does raise the question of how people who do need power to be on/reliable will be exempted.

If this capability really is being developed then we’d better hope that it’s protected properly from state actors who would have some fun with it for sure.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31 Posts
It says from May, new chargers will be impacted. Therefore it seems its more built into the software of the individual chargers rather than a central point controlling it?

Must be lodging it with the WTO as it'll be a standard expected from the products wherever they come from. So those of us who have them already won't be effected presumably.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,813 Posts
There have been assurances that, for example, the smart meter remote disconnect function will only be used in "extreme circumstances",
Closing the shops and pubs last March was supposed to be an “unprecedented” response to “extreme circumstances”, but then they got such a hard-on for it they did it again - twice! - that same year.

Slippery slopes are just as slippery as they appear.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,633 Posts
It says from May, new chargers will be impacted. Therefore it seems its more built into the software of the individual chargers rather than a central point controlling it?

Must be lodging it with the WTO as it'll be a standard expected from the products wherever they come from. So those of us who have them already won't be effected presumably.

It is most probably just a tightening up of the pretty slack condition applied at the moment that all grant funded charge points must have internet connectivity. I get the feeling that they just didn't understand how they were going to implement remote disconnect, but knew they wanted it, so made the grant dependent on connectivity, without actually defining any sort of standards or how what they might want to do could be achieved. My guess is that this is probably the first step in getting all smart charge point connected services to include some sort of API that allows DNOs to turn them off if they need to.

In terms of exemptions, then there is already a protocol for this when it comes to electricity supplies, so they would probably just read across from that. That protocol is intended to protect vulnerable people that rely on having a supply.

Closing the shops and pubs last March was supposed to be an “unprecedented” response to “extreme circumstances”, but then they got such a hard-on for it they did it again - twice! - that same year.

Slippery slopes are just as slippery as they appear.

I'm sure you're right. It's not something that has changed my view that dumb charge points offer less to go wrong and have the advantage of being directly under my control.
 

·
I'm not crazy, the attack has begun.
Joined
·
30,795 Posts
barely disguised EV clickbait articles keep getting more extreme
Eugh. Standards of journalism are so poor now and the Mail worse than most
Well, that all depends on whether you are disagreeing with what is being said.

I mean 'Covid denier dies of Covid' seems to be a typical headline at least once a day in lots of press streams, but who here has been complaining about that impoverished level of journalism?

It's only bad if it says something you don't like, if you like it then it is 'excusable'.

Anyway it seems to be factually correct, can you quote a sentence that's wrong?

I think the reason that it is a disingenuous piece is not that it is necessarily wrong, and indeed anyone that has any level of mental capacity greater than cattle-class would not want to charge then anyway if they can avoid it. Besides, most petrol stations are closed for 8 to 12 hours a day and no-one seems to have had a problem with that.

So, of course it is bollocks, but it is correct. It's much the same way for 90% of what passes as journalism these days.

Look on the positive side .. those who are too dumb to figure out what that text 'actually means' and put it into context are going to try to avoid buying an EV for a while, which is just as well as no-one is making enough EVs to sell to 'everyone' yet anyway, and if 'everyone' wanted one then the prices would be even more ridiculous (for a typical working person these days) than they are already.

Better it is that people who are concerned about this article DON'T go buy an EV and cock up the supply-demand for everyone else.

In short; not a problem. It is right and it will dissuade the right people for whom it is better that they are dissuaded for the time being while the supply chains sort themselves out.

Simples, innit!

Chill!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,983 Posts
The beauty of having a dumb charger and no smart meter:)
Are you sure, my dumb charger has a SIM card inside :eek: Think I’ll have to wrap it in tinfoil 🤣
And if you don't have a smart meter you can't benefit from special low overnight EV tariffs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
201 Posts
In short; not a problem. It is right and it will dissuade the right people for whom it is better that they are dissuaded for the time being while the supply chains sort themselves out.

Simples, innit!

Chill!
There isn’t a ‘right’ kind of person to buy an EV - perhaps an argument that those that drive the most miles will have more environmental impact by switching, and I’d hate for someone to go and buy an EV instead of using public transport or active travel but otherwise every non-ICE driver is the right driver.
 
1 - 20 of 146 Posts
Top