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Sorry about the move back to the topic, there's nothing to stop anyone changing their car charger to an un-connected device after the 3 year period for OLEV grant has expired (that is if it's not possible to disable the communication part). As it's just swapping the unit on the wall it shouldn't be too expensive. My chargers now 7 years old and when it expires I'll be replacing it with one without a connection to the government. The incentive of off peak pricing is a big enough incentive for me to charge when it's cheaper if I can. It's rare for me to need to charge during the 9 hours that they are suggesting but if you need a charge you need a charge and you pay more. I just need VW to sort out the timed charging on the ID.3 so it works and I don't have to remember to start the charge before going to bed via the app.
 

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This will never be introduced as a fixed pre-set for multiple reasons. It will have to be just a suggested default setting, as indicated, and easily over-ridden to a pattern that suits any shift worker for instance, or personal choice to fit in with an agreed power tariff. Even a moment's thought reveals any number of ways that it could be circumvented even if was fixed internally. The simplest being just to use the 3 pin granny if a charge was needed when 'computer says no'. And for that reason, they will realise the futility of mandating a fixed regime and go for the 'suggested' settings method. Knowing that inertia will achieve most of the desired result by that alone.
 

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2018 Nissan Leaf 40kWh Tekna - love it
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One of the negatives for me is that more people charging at night will push up the price of off-peak electricity, particularly E7 which is mostly used by those with storage heating. Thermal storage has the potential to provide cost effective levelling of the load on the grid and should be encouraged to allow more people to move away from fossil fuels. However perverse, if the cost of off peak electricity increases significantly above current levels, I will be forced to burn wood and coal.
 

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With the increasing proportion of wind power on the grid, I would think there'll be an excess of off peak power for years to come despite the increasing use of electric cars. If we are going to move to heat pumps and hydrogen to heat our homes, the number of wind farms will continue to increase for years to come. Hydrogen's inefficiency isn't going to help and I suspect they will want to run the electrolysers 24/7 to meet demand which will mean more peak hours capacity.
 

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With the increasing proportion of wind power on the grid, I would think there'll be an excess of off peak power for years to come ....
... except at times when there is no wind power, which happens periodically. Hence, storing some as hydrogen for the 'down' times, however inefficient that storage process might be.

You can't have 24/7 wind power so there's no point putting '24/7' in the same paragraph as 'wind power'. It's like putting in a discussion about chalk in a paragraph about cheese.
 

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Tidal power is pretty good, we just don't really have anything sizable to speak of. The Swansea lagoon has been abandoned and that was going to be reasonably big and a starting point for a few more. It's output also varies with the phases of the moon so every 6 hours you get very little and the tidal height varies on a 28 day cycle.
 

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... except at times when there is no wind power, which happens periodically
We haven't cracked that yet. I suspect we will need a combination of batteries, Hydrogen, liquified, heated silica sand storage and the little bit of pumped hydro that we have. You never know someone might come up with a cheap means of storing power at volume.
 

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when wind power goes wrong ....

"Owners of the UK鈥檚 last remaining coal power stations are in line to be paid record sums to keep the lights on as energy prices reach fresh highs, and could be pushed even higher by lower wind power.

Coal plants have been called on to supply power steadily in recent months, through one of the least windy summers on record since 1961 and sharply rising prices in the wholesale energy market.

The UK鈥檚 electricity system operator (ESO) spent more than 拢86m last week alone to keep the lights on, which involved making payments of up to 拢4,000 per megawatt-hour for fossil fuel power stations to generate electricity at short notice, including the West Burton plant in Nottinghamshire and a coal unit at the Drax site in North Yorkshire."



ooops ... now then, where is that 'nuclear' button?

拢4 per kWh .... heh .... good job BEV owners are being financially protected from the needs of the choices they made to buy such a car.

Can we revisit the 'fossil fuels are subsidised' debate?
 

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Interesting to note that energy storage technologies are being discussed. At some stage there should appear one or two obvious winners which will be the cheapest/most efficient. The most overlooked is local thermal storage - yes storage heaters. Much easier to manage in terms of distribution and, importantly, the user (us) pays for the hardware. Also there is no need for conversion back into electricity.
I would see developments where electric storage systems form part of the building structure.
Liquid salts also have a synergy with modern nuclear power systems.
 

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For those of us with long memories storage heaters send literal shivers. They were terrible. Any heat storage solution you have to be able to turn on and off at will not turn on and then they stay on until empty like a lot of storage heaters. They were only ever any good for background heating usually too so you had to have another heat source in the room (usually a gas fire) to actually get warm.

These storage heaters are going to have to be a lot better than they were.
 

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For those of us with long memories storage heaters send literal shivers. They were terrible. Any heat storage solution you have to be able to turn on and off at will not turn on and then they stay on until empty like a lot of storage heaters. They were only ever any good for background heating usually too so you had to have another heat source in the room (usually a gas fire) to actually get warm.

These storage heaters are going to have to be a lot better than they were.

We use storage heating. Works a treat, charge it up overnight using a heat pump and it discharges gently over the next day or two, keeping the house nice and warm. We use the concrete ground floor slab as the heat store, charging it up with warm water via embedded UFH pipes. It sits around 1掳C to 2掳C warmer than the house, so is pretty much self-regulating. If a bit of sun, or the heat from some guests, cooking, etc, warm the house up, the floor reduces it's heat output as the temperature differential reduces. As the house cools, the heat output from the floor increases, due to the increase in temperature differential. Makes for a pretty good self-regulating heating system.
 

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We use storage heating. Works a treat, charge it up overnight using a heat pump and it discharges gently over the next day or two, keeping the house nice and warm. We use the concrete ground floor slab as the heat store, charging it up with warm water via embedded UFH pipes. It sits around 1掳C to 2掳C warmer than the house, so is pretty much self-regulating. If a bit of sun, or the heat from some guests, cooking, etc, warm the house up, the floor reduces it's heat output as the temperature differential reduces. As the house cools, the heat output from the floor increases, due to the increase in temperature differential. Makes for a pretty good self-regulating heating system.
Almost any heating system will work well in a super insulated house because the heating system has a very light load. Super insulated houses often have problems with overheating in summer. Storage heaters in a leaky house with a high heat load so that the storage heaters would run out during the day was misery. The horror to come is heat pumps in leaky houses. A complete mismatch of building and heating technologies.
 

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We haven't cracked that yet. I suspect we will need a combination of batteries, Hydrogen, liquified, heated silica sand storage and the little bit of pumped hydro that we have. You never know someone might come up with a cheap means of storing power at volume.
At Fully Charged Outside, a plan to use old mineshafts for energy storage was mentioned.
Use cheap power to winch several thousand tonnes of weights up mineshafts, and then drop them when demand peaks.
The same way a grandfather clock stores power.

This is the company - https://gravitricity.com/
 

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At Fully Charged Outside, a plan to use old mineshafts for energy storage was mentioned.
Use cheap power to winch several thousand tonnes of weights up mineshafts, and then drop them when demand peaks.
The same way a grandfather clock stores power.

This is the company - https://gravitricity.com/
That's a daft idea.

Far better to use old coal mines as source of heat. Especially when a load of them are on fire at any one time. Some have been burning quietly under Staffordshire for years.

Stoke On Trent were going to do geo thermal but so far they seem to have built a shared gas boiler which is frankly pathetic.
 

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Almost any heating system will work well in a super insulated house because the heating system has a very light load. Super insulated houses often have problems with overheating in summer. Storage heaters in a leaky house with a high heat load so that the storage heaters would run out during the day was misery. The horror to come is heat pumps in leaky houses. A complete mismatch of building and heating technologies.

That's not really true if you also want to also reduce the impact on our electricity supply system, and not burn any fuel locally, in order to minimise emissions (which, after all, is the whole point of designing and building zero carbon home). For zero carbon homes then there really aren't many options for heating at all. To minimise the impact on the grid with electric heating you need to only draw power at night, when the grid tends to run with its lowest emissions, so that forces the use of storage heating.
 
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