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I know this has been discussed before but I thought it was worth starting a fresh discussion with my investigations into this.

A few councils have started to comment on how to charge when you have no off-street dedicated parking. Here are the ones I have found so far:

Leading the charge for electric vehicles
Electric vehicle charging – guidance for residents
https://present.brighton-hove.gov.u...8_ElectricVehiclesandChargingFAQ.docxA.ps.pdf

I have spoken with my council on this (Cumbria) and they have said they are following the lead of the Hampshire Council advice (see above) so they are saying it would be ok to do it and no license is needed. They also say they are not looking into lamp post chargers as there would not be enough to go round as demand rises. I don't know what else they are thinking about although I will continue to try and engage them on this. But I am pleased they have taken a reasonable view on the cable across the street with a suitable covering.

Clearly there is a lot of concern around when it comes to putting anything across the pavement in terms of liability and everyone I have spoken to immediately thinks it would be risky to do this. I think a lot of it is paranoia rather than actual law or the result of court rulings - of course I do as I want to do it! But to be honest, the council tell those on my street and others in similar housing to put their rubbish out on the street in black gull bags. These can be difficult to see at night and are as much a hazard as anything else. So who is responsible if someone stumbles over one of them?

At the end of the day, if someone had a trip and it was taken to court, surely the fact that suitable and responsible action had been taken to both prevent and warn of the trip hazard, a reasonable view would be taken? Is there any precedent set in court rulings that anyone knows of?

I am due to receive my Ioniq in the next few weeks and it will be a little while after that until I start charging as above so I will update with pictures and how it is going. But this is an issue that is not going away so I am interested to hear other people's views.
 

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Zoe Devotee
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Move house or use public charging if your concerned. I wouldn't run cables across public paths. Maybe the council could install a gully with a cover that you can lift and run your cable through and close so there is no trip hazzard?
 

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I know this has been discussed before but I thought it was worth starting a fresh discussion with my investigations into this.

A few councils have started to comment on how to charge when you have no off-street dedicated parking. Here are the ones I have found so far:

Leading the charge for electric vehicles
Electric vehicle charging – guidance for residents
https://present.brighton-hove.gov.u...8_ElectricVehiclesandChargingFAQ.docxA.ps.pdf

I have spoken with my council on this (Cumbria) and they have said they are following the lead of the Hampshire Council advice (see above) so they are saying it would be ok to do it and no license is needed. They also say they are not looking into lamp post chargers as there would not be enough to go round as demand rises. I don't know what else they are thinking about although I will continue to try and engage them on this. But I am pleased they have taken a reasonable view on the cable across the street with a suitable covering.

Clearly there is a lot of concern around when it comes to putting anything across the pavement in terms of liability and everyone I have spoken to immediately thinks it would be risky to do this. I think a lot of it is paranoia rather than actual law or the result of court rulings - of course I do as I want to do it! But to be honest, the council tell those on my street and others in similar housing to put their rubbish out on the street in black gull bags. These can be difficult to see at night and are as much a hazard as anything else. So who is responsible if someone stumbles over one of them?

At the end of the day, if someone had a trip and it was taken to court, surely the fact that suitable and responsible action had been taken to both prevent and warn of the trip hazard, a reasonable view would be taken? Is there any precedent set in court rulings that anyone knows of?

I am due to receive my Ioniq in the next few weeks and it will be a little while after that until I start charging as above so I will update with pictures and how it is going. But this is an issue that is not going away so I am interested to hear other people's views.

Very informative and interesting - thank you for the research.

I'm expecting my new MG ZS EV in March and live in Westminster with no off street parking so will have to rely on the public charging network. Westminster (and other London Boroughs) has installed many of the Ubitricity lamppost chargers and within about a 10 minute walk from home there are about 12 of these installed in lamposts in resident parking bays. I've been checking them regularly and, unfortunately, most of the time nearly all of these are blocked by (ICE) residents parked quite legitamately - WCC refuse to restrict the parking spot to EVs only so any valid resident permit holder can park. (And sadly, a Tesla Model X was hogging one lamppost for a whole week - can't take that long to charge!) Although not being able to select my perfect choice of charger location I'm sure I'll be able to find one of these free when I need to which will be fine. If it proves too dificult I may investigate the cable cover option suggested by Hammersmith & Fulham.
 

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Very informative and interesting - thank you for the research.

I'm expecting my new MG ZS EV in March and live in Westminster with no off street parking so will have to rely on the public charging network. Westminster (and other London Boroughs) has installed many of the Ubitricity lamppost chargers and within about a 10 minute walk from home there are about 12 of these installed in lamposts in resident parking bays. I've been checking them regularly and, unfortunately, most of the time nearly all of these are blocked by (ICE) residents parked quite legitamately - WCC refuse to restrict the parking spot to EVs only so any valid resident permit holder can park. (And sadly, a Tesla Model X was hogging one lamppost for a whole week - can't take that long to charge!) Although not being able to select my perfect choice of charger location I'm sure I'll be able to find one of these free when I need to which will be fine. If it proves too dificult I may investigate the cable cover option suggested by Hammersmith & Fulham.

This is partly why I've built a mod for charging that allows me to use a standard extension lead... just used this last week with 15m extension lead on a ubitricity charger that was ICED and charged with no issues. Set my granny charger to 10A and everything was super happy. If I set the charging rate low enough, probably could go considerably further, although I'm sure people will be angry about that somehow. ;)

127040
 
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That raises a number of interesting points. Firstly, because the lead goes along rather than across the pavement IMO it is a good deal less likely to trip someone up. However, because you are using level 2 rather than the intended (by Ubitricity) level 3 I'd be concerned over the safety elements. Is there a reason why you don't extend the lead after the Ubitricity unit with a type 2 to type 2 but allowing a variable resistance to give control over the current?
 

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I can see cash-strapped councils not wanting the cost of modifying lampposts, and safety policy says lampposts should be located away from the roadside and closer to the houses, so fire engines etc can get through in emergencies. Not such a good place, as it leads to the trip hazards. The best adaptation I've seen is the galvanised metal drainage trough with a slot down the middle; simple to inset in the pavement, and trivially easy to feed an extension cable through, and zero trip hazards. Should be cheap enough for the householder to afford.
 

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That raises a number of interesting points. Firstly, because the lead goes along rather than across the pavement IMO it is a good deal less likely to trip someone up. However, because you are using level 2 rather than the intended (by Ubitricity) level 3 I'd be concerned over the safety elements. Is there a reason why you don't extend the lead after the Ubitricity unit with a type 2 to type 2 but allowing a variable resistance to give control over the current?
If you look at the cost per metre, you quickly realize that for more than 5-10 metres, it's just not cost-effective. I'm not suggesting this is the recommended way to charge, but if I'm desperate enough, I have 45m+ of cable. That would easily get me to £500+ with the normal cable used for type 2 charging cables.

Because of this, I make sure I set my EVSE to a lower rate, but presumably the charge point will cut off the charge if I did exceed the allowed power. The main thing that I'm losing here is around RCD and disconnection/arcing prevention. As long as the weather is dry and and no one comes up and unplugs the cable, I'm probably fine in a pinch.
 
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Also, depending on how cars are parked, I will sometimes run the cable on the street, so that it isn't on the pavement. However, if people have their wheels up to the curb, I run it along the pavement to avoid damage when they pull out. The other thing is this cable is white, which makes it a bit easier to see in the dark and my longer one is bright green, so from a visibility perspective, they don't get lost in the shadows.
 
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I can see cash-strapped councils not wanting the cost of modifying lampposts, and safety policy says lampposts should be located away from the roadside and closer to the houses, so fire engines etc can get through in emergencies. Not such a good place, as it leads to the trip hazards.
Surely the approach of the last 40 years is to rely on the market to produce a solution? :rolleyes: I would assume that when a lamppost is used a new supply is required as I can't see the lighting circuit being specified for an additional 14kW per post. In which case the use of the post is to avoid a further piece of street furniture.
The best adaptation I've seen is the galvanised metal drainage trough with a slot down the middle; simple to inset in the pavement, and trivially easy to feed an extension cable through, and zero trip hazards. Should be cheap enough for the householder to afford.
It would be interesting to know the cost of fitting one across a pavement when that's heavy paving rather than tarmac.
 

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This is partly why I've built a mod for charging that allows me to use a standard extension lead... just used this last week with 15m extension lead on a ubitricity charger that was ICED and charged with no issues. Set my granny charger to 10A and everything was super happy. If I set the charging rate low enough, probably could go considerably further, although I'm sure people will be angry about that somehow. ;)

View attachment 127040
Perhaps if the ICE vehicle sees the lengths (pun intended) you have had to go to he may well park elsewhere next time?
 

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Sadly it might have the opposite effect if they notice at all, and just allow the ICE driver to self-justify parking like that on the basis that the EV driver isn't disadvantaged.
 

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Surely the approach of the last 40 years is to rely on the market to produce a solution? ...
Yes, when the market offers the customer an acceptable solution, then the need for these workarounds goes away. So when we have Evs with petrol-equivalent range (I'm thinking of the Hillman Imp I learnt to drive in, 6 gallon tank so probably 180 mile range before anxiety set in), refillable at a local not-more-than-petrol cost station, in about the same time frame (say 10 minutes, I've had to queue for a pump & have tolerated it), and affordable, then surely that's going to be close to a 100% suitable replacement fpr petrol cars?

And I think we're not far off that (Niro, Ioniq, Zoe with CCS). And if those with off-road parking can refill much more cheaply, than that's their good fortune, and those living in flats should not be jealous. Anyone with off-road parking has in effect invested in their own charging infrastructure (probably unknowingly when they bought the house), just has anyone who has added solar panels to the mix.

And those in flats despairing of ever getting a super-cheap charge will no doubt be looking for free/cheap fillups at work, or when shopping, so the future looks very bright to me. All it takes is a reasonable increase in battery capacity from the Mk1 Leafs & the <35 kWh slow-charging Evs out there now.
 

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Surely the approach of the last 40 years is to rely on the market to produce a solution? :rolleyes: I would assume that when a lamppost is used a new supply is required as I can't see the lighting circuit being specified for an additional 14kW per post. In which case the use of the post is to avoid a further piece of street furniture.
When Ubitricity install on lampposts they cover the modification costs and don't need to upgrade the cabling. Apparently there is enough capacity now LED bulbs are used and they run at 5 kW on most installations.
 

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Putting my council inspector that on that charging cable needs to run in the carriageway along the kerb and not have any cable exposed on the pavement. Yeah there's always going to be a chance of damage from cars transgressing a raised kerb.
 

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@TheWoodies I'm in Hampshire with an IONIQ and this is exactly what I do (I've commented elsewhere on this forum before). Yes there is a liability risk but I'm probably following a similar thought pattern - if you've followed the guidance and taken all reasonable steps to make it as safe as possible.. what more can you do?

For me, my 'risk assessment' also takes in to account when pedestrian traffic is most likely to use the pavement - in my particular area once the shops close at 7pm it's basically dead so I charge at night rather than during the day, this also means I can use Octopus GO/Agile rates more effectively. I dropped a courtesy note to my local parish council explaining what guidance I was following and advising them of my direct contact details should there be any queries.

127046


So far (touch wood) there's not been any problems/complaints.
 

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The previous thread was Charging and pavements.

It looks good in practice. Are you still charging using the granny lead in your boot, or have you got a type 3 charge point and hence a simpler connection? You have mentioned switching to Agile which could be done either way although better at 7 kW than 2 kW.
 

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Are you still charging using the granny lead in your boot, or have you got a type 3 charge point and hence a simpler connection? You have mentioned switching to Agile which could be done either way although better at 7 kW than 2 kW.
Still granny at the moment, waiting on smart meter & charging point install, 2 months delay so far!!
 

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I've done something similar in a town in Hampshire when I visit my mother. The main thing I am concerned about is buggies as there's a school nearby, so around 3pm I either avoid charging or unplug my vehicle and put the cable away for an hour or so until the school traffic dies down. I have a cable protector but it's an easily transportable rubber one so not ideal to get wheeled vehicles over. It's otherwise a quiet street with almost no late evening traffic so I'm not concerned later in the day, and there's adequate street lighting active until midnight.

Cable protectors are likely to be a suitable solution when <1% of vehicles having charging needs but when every house has an EV we can't have the pavement space occupied by hundreds of cable protectors. Wheelchair access, buggies, mobility scooters, blind people etc will all need to be considered.
 

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@TheWoodies I'm in Hampshire with an IONIQ and this is exactly what I do (I've commented elsewhere on this forum before). Yes there is a liability risk but I'm probably following a similar thought pattern - if you've followed the guidance and taken all reasonable steps to make it as safe as possible.. what more can you do?

For me, my 'risk assessment' also takes in to account when pedestrian traffic is most likely to use the pavement - in my particular area once the shops close at 7pm it's basically dead so I charge at night rather than during the day, this also means I can use Octopus GO/Agile rates more effectively. I dropped a courtesy note to my local parish council explaining what guidance I was following and advising them of my direct contact details should there be any queries.

View attachment 127046

So far (touch wood) there's not been any problems/complaints.
That's pretty solid right there... you could probably drive a car over that and be fine.

I'm lucky enough to have a drainage/expansion gap along my pavement into which I put my cable, although I have been considering adding something beyond that or even to cover it so that it doesn't hop out... but so far it's been fine and the neighbors who I've talked to have all been curious, rather than annoyed. I get all the 'how far does it go' and 'how long to charge'... one OAP even knocked on my door to ask me about how good the car was. :D

127047
 

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I've done something similar in a town in Hampshire when I visit my mother. The main thing I am concerned about is buggies as there's a school nearby, so around 3pm I either avoid charging or unplug my vehicle and put the cable away for an hour or so until the school traffic dies down. I have a cable protector but it's an easily transportable rubber one so not ideal to get wheeled vehicles over. It's otherwise a quiet street with almost no late evening traffic so I'm not concerned later in the day, and there's adequate street lighting active until midnight.

Cable protectors are likely to be a suitable solution when <1% of vehicles having charging needs but when every house has an EV we can't have the pavement space occupied by hundreds of cable protectors. Wheelchair access, buggies, mobility scooters, blind people etc will all need to be considered.
Completely agree here... these are all stopgap solutions until streets have enough charging for at least 50-75% of cars that can possibly be parked along them. If you're lucky, right now ubitricity might put 3 in a street. You might have 20-200+ cars in that general area... once there is saturation, people will need to be able to charge on demand, even if they have a huge battery.
 
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