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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My C-Zero was purchased new in 2018 and I’ve had no problems except the range when fully charged has never gone above 64 miles which seems a little low to me even though I realise the figure shown is only a “guesstimate”. Citroen claim 93 miles but elsewhere I have seen 80 miles as a real world range.

I am due for my 12 month first service soon, so was thinking of asking Citroen to look at battery but as I don’t really trust them I wanted to use Canion to check the battery myself. However I am confused as to what OBDLink to get - there appear to be an LX, MX and an MX+. What’s the difference and will they all work with the C-Zero and Canion app?
 

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My C-Zero was purchased new in 2018 and I’ve had no problems except the range when fully charged has never gone above 64 miles which seems a little low to me even though I realise the figure shown is only a “guesstimate”. Citroen claim 93 miles but elsewhere I have seen 80 miles as a real world range.
The claim of 93 miles is based on the NEDC rating system - in other words its a complete flight of fancy, sorry.

Not sure where you have seen real world range of 80 miles quoted either. You could achive that if your battery had as-new SoH (very unlikely) and you drove at a constant 20mph without stopping or starting, otherwise forget it.

The estimate you see at a full charge depends on your consumption over the last 15 miles or so driving before that - drive with a lead foot or on a motorway and it will be low, potter around in urban areas and it will be a lot higher.

From my experience driving an Ion for over two years and extrapolating back to a battery with an as-new SoH under cominbed driving cycle conditions you could realistically expect about 70 miles in summer and 48 in winter with the heater on.

Now multiply that by the likely battery SoH. My battery is down to a SoH of about 72% so realistically I now get 55 miles in summer and 35 miles in winter, and that's with fairly conservative driving.
I am due for my 12 month first service soon, so was thinking of asking Citroen to look at battery but as I don’t really trust them I wanted to use Canion to check the battery myself. However I am confused as to what OBDLink to get - there appear to be an LX, MX and an MX+. What’s the difference and will they all work with the C-Zero and Canion app?
All three will work with Canion, (I have an LX and an MX+) but you only need the cheaper LX. Make sure you buy direct from the manufacturer because older versions of the LX had problems with the bluetooth firmware that caused the device to frequently disconnect and lose bluetooth pairing when using Canion - you don't want to get stuck buying old stock from a 3rd party seller that might have the old bluetooth firmware as the bluetooth firmware is not field upgradable.

I found it considerably cheaper to buy direct from them in the US and get it shipped to the UK than buy from the UK! It did take a couple of weeks though.

I'd be interested to hear what Ah figure Canion reports for your car and what mileage and age the car is. For reference an Ah figure of 45.8 is considered to be a factory new capacity. So divide the reported Ah figure into 45.8 to get the SoH of the battery.
 

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2017 CZero here, so same battery configuration as yours. Canon reports 41.5 Ah currently, this goes up and down.
Actual range (typically 50 miles driven plus reported remaining range never goes above 70 miles but all our roads up here are moderately hilly). Aero mods definitely help achieving 70 miles at higher speeds on country roads, that's speeds above 50 mph.
 

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2017 CZero here, so same battery configuration as yours. Canon reports 41.5 Ah currently, this goes up and down.
My 2011 Ion was 39.9Ah at 28k miles and 6 years old. Now at 54k miles and 8 years old it's at 33.1Ah... so it has lost more Ah capacity in the last 2 and a bit years than the first 6 years.
Actual range (typically 50 miles driven plus reported remaining range never goes above 70 miles but all our roads up here are moderately hilly). Aero mods definitely help achieving 70 miles at higher speeds on country roads, that's speeds above 50 mph.
70 miles sounds about right for a battery that is still at about 90% SoH.When mine was still at 87% I typically got 65 miles.

One thing to keep in mind is that 2013 and later cars only have 80 cells instead of 88 cells. So for the same usable Ah capacity total usable kWh is about 10% less.
 

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Here's my usual plug for the free OBDZero Android app. It works with "normal" OBD-II adaptors, such as the one on this page: amazon.co.uk/shop/richi
[any micro-kickback from link goes to SWMBO's dog-rescue charity]
Another program that will work with a cheap ELM327 adaptor (which Canion will not) and give the usable Ah capacity of the battery is Hobdrive. It provides some other technical data which Canion doesn't as well.

However overall I'd say Canion is more useful and useable than either Hobdrive or OBDZero, so for anyone wanting to get the most information about the functioning of their car it's worth getting the OBDLink LX and then you can run all three programs.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
The claim of 93 miles is based on the NEDC rating system - in other words its a complete flight of fancy, sorry.

Not sure where you have seen real world range of 80 miles quoted either. You could achive that if your battery had as-new SoH (very unlikely) and you drove at a constant 20mph without stopping or starting, otherwise forget it.

The estimate you see at a full charge depends on your consumption over the last 15 miles or so driving before that - drive with a lead foot or on a motorway and it will be low, potter around in urban areas and it will be a lot higher.

From my experience driving an Ion for over two years and extrapolating back to a battery with an as-new SoH under cominbed driving cycle conditions you could realistically expect about 70 miles in summer and 48 in winter with the heater on.

Now multiply that by the likely battery SoH. My battery is down to a SoH of about 72% so realistically I now get 55 miles in summer and 35 miles in winter, and that's with fairly conservative driving.

All three will work with Canion, (I have an LX and an MX+) but you only need the cheaper LX. Make sure you buy direct from the manufacturer because older versions of the LX had problems with the bluetooth firmware that caused the device to frequently disconnect and lose bluetooth pairing when using Canion - you don't want to get stuck buying old stock from a 3rd party seller that might have the old bluetooth firmware as the bluetooth firmware is not field upgradable.

I found it considerably cheaper to buy direct from them in the US and get it shipped to the UK than buy from the UK! It did take a couple of weeks though.

I'd be interested to hear what Ah figure Canion reports for your car and what mileage and age the car is. For reference an Ah figure of 45.8 is considered to be a factory new capacity. So divide the reported Ah figure into 45.8 to get the SoH of the battery.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Hi, thanks for the reply.

I saw the 80 miles figure quoted on “HonestJohn.co.uk” but as you say it can’t be relied upon. My C-Zero has only done some 600 miles with no motorway driving and as I am in London the speed mostly in the 20 to 35 mph range with the occasional spurt to 42mph, so fairly conservative. Winter charging maxed out at 57 miles and in the warmer weather it has been 60 miles but the other day a full charge got to 64 miles. Admittedly the air on has been on recently but I had expected a full charge to be higher than 64 miles.

I will have to get the ODBLink to check out the SoH and report back.

Hopefully it is just a case of the reported range being inaccurate and not a battery problem as I can imagine trying to get Citroen to repair the traction battery will be difficult even under warranty.
 

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Another important thing to remember is to follow the instruction in the manual to discharge the battery at least until the GOM flashes (two blobs), then fully charge. Do this roughly monthly.

It's probably also a good idea to pause for a couple of hours between discharge and charge.
 

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Hi, thanks for the reply.

I saw the 80 miles figure quoted on “HonestJohn.co.uk” but as you say it can’t be relied upon.
I've seen a couple of honest john reviews of EV's before and unfotunately he doesn't seem to know what he's talking about when it comes to EV's...
My C-Zero has only done some 600 miles with no motorway driving and as I am in London the speed mostly in the 20 to 35 mph range with the occasional spurt to 42mph, so fairly conservative. Winter charging maxed out at 57 miles and in the warmer weather it has been 60 miles but the other day a full charge got to 64 miles. Admittedly the air on has been on recently but I had expected a full charge to be higher than 64 miles.
What year and mileage is the car ? Without having an idea of how old the car is or what mileage its done it's hard to say whether the figures you're getting are good, average or bad.
I will have to get the ODBLink to check out the SoH and report back.

Hopefully it is just a case of the reported range being inaccurate and not a battery problem as I can imagine trying to get Citroen to repair the traction battery will be difficult even under warranty.
Don't hold your breath in the warranty department. I've looked into this in some detail and contacted Peugeot directly about it as I have some faulty cells in my Ion that are causing what I believe is premature and excessive degradation (in battery capacity and range) and unfortunately unlike some other EV's where the battery warranty includes a SoH capacity figure to trigger replacement under warranty (typically about 70%) there is no coverage under the "warranty" for usable capacity being below a set figure provided by Citroen or Peugeot.

In short, they will not replace a battery which is working but has reduced range. Only if the battery completely failed or had a ludicrously short range (say 5 miles) or would not fully charge would it be eligible.

Also in the UK the warranty is 60k miles or 8 years whichever comes first, and this is considered to be an "extended warranty" which only applies if the car has received yearly servicing. If not, the standard car warranty applies. (Either 3 or 5 years - I can't recall off hand)

I guess we'll find out whether your battery is good, average or bad when you can get Canion up and running. There is a large variation in how well Ion/C-Zero batteries last - some have very good capacity at an advanced age and some like mine seem to suffer from a few failing cells at a relatively low mileage. (Three of my cells started degrading unusually rapidly at about 40k miles and have now degraded more from 40k to 54k miles than they did in the first 40k miles)
 

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@DBMandrake Jamie at Second Life has LEV50 cells in stock

[edit: no modules right now]
A module is 8 cells, I only need four and they have individual cells still in stock.

I found the Second Life website a few months ago and made enquries at the time but had been waiting until the time was right to pull the trigger, (money and free time being concentrated on more urgent projects) but as it happens I ordered four cells from them on Sunday and just got a UPS delivery warning for tomorrow. :)

I don't want to derail this thread with unrelated trivia so I'll update my own battery thread once I've had time to test the cells.
 

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2018 clone will have battery cells with improved chemistry: unless there is an infant mortality, likely that car will have a very long life.
Somehow I missed where he said 2018, although purchased new in 2018 and manufactured in 2018 with freshly made cells isn't necessarily the same thing.

Despite Peugeot's protesting to the contrary, an 80 cell 2018 pack should have a range when new that is about 10% less than the older 2011-2012 models. However as it should degrade slower, after a few years it should hold its range much better and have more range than an equivalent early car like mine did at the same age.
 
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