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Hi MERMOO THE REASON

The lack of sunroof is not drag related at all, it is about the weakening of the structural integrity. There are reports and pictures of cracks running from the sunroof aperture to the nearest seam, that is why. Also when a sunroof is closed how is there any drag? There is other reasons, the roof when opening, catches on the headlining and pulls/rips the headlining, this maybe as with other cars that the sound deadening drops down a fraction (poor quality glue, plus the suns heat) and the roof catches and so as it goes back it can do damage. I used to repair the odd one or two from different manufacturers 20 yrs ago, I could do it without taking the headlining down. The pictures of the roof cracks I have seen, as an ex MOT tester I find shocking, there is a major problem here in the very structural design of this car, I wonder when they had the crash tests did the cars have sunroofs fitted? So forget the excuses and realise this company is as there CEO had to admit "A dishonest company". I started as a mechanic in 1969 and I have never seen such cracking, in any other cars roof at all! To qualify this statement, in the late 70s- early 80s there was fashion to fit flip sunroofs, they were cheap and we fitted a lot. This required cutting a hole in the roof with a jig saw but I never saw any of those cars come back with cracking in the roof panel. I shall leave it at that. If you don't believe me google something like Golf mk7 faults that should bring it up. The general car mags wont touch this flaw, VAGs advertising arm would never advertise with again if they did.
I have already suggested to @Mermoo that drag factor would be the unlikely reason for restricting the option of a sun roof on the e.Golf.
Removing that much structural strength from the roof of a modern car today, then increasing the weight of the car by installing a heavy battery pack must compromise the over haul upper strength of the body shell.
You could chop a big hole for a sun roof from a car in the 60 and 70’s because the metal sheet used was much thicker than the cars today.
The strength comes from the shape of the pressing in a lot of modern cars.
The actual steel they use to press the panels, is wafer thin today !.
 

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I have already suggested to @Mermoo that drag factor would be the unlikely reason for restricting the option of a sun roof on the e.Golf.
Removing that much structural strength from the roof of a modern car today, then increasing the weight of the car by installing a heavy battery pack must compromise the over haul upper strength of the body shell.
You could chop a big hole for a sun roof from a car in the 60 and 70’s because the metal sheet used was much thicker than the cars today.
The strength comes from the shape of the pressing in a lot of modern cars.
The actual steel they use to press the panels, is wafer thin today !.
Modern welding techniques yield much stronger welds allowing the reduction in steel thickness and hence weight while maintaining crash integrity. However as has been stated indirectly a thin sheet steel roof with a big hole cut in it for a sun roof is not going to benefit from stronger welds in other parts of the structure. All the cars I had back in the 70's and 80's with factory fitted sun roofs (when sun roofs were much in vogue) leaked so I avoided them thereafter.
 

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Modern welding techniques yield much stronger welds allowing the reduction in steel thickness and hence weight while maintaining crash integrity. However as has been stated indirectly a thin sheet steel roof with a big hole cut in it for a sun roof is not going to benefit from stronger welds in other parts of the structure. All the cars I had back in the 70's and 80's with factory fitted sun roofs (when sun roofs were much in vogue) leaked so I avoided them thereafter.
I had one of them glass sun roofs !.
I got soaked every time we went around a corner !.
That didn’t matter though because the roof looked really cool !. Ha Ha !.
The old roof’s leaked mainly because they had no internal drain gutter system to carry the water away.
The newer ones generally leak when the drain tubes become blocked and the water back up and then leaks into the cabin space !.
 

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I had one of them glass sun roofs !.
I got soaked every time we went around a corner !.
That didn’t matter though because the roof looked really cool !. Ha Ha !.
The old roof’s leaked mainly because they had no internal drain gutter system to carry the water away.
The newer ones generally leak when the drain tubes become blocked and the water back up and then leaks into the cabin space !.
I am sorry I have upset you all by showing you VAG devotees what was the real problem is, you can excuse it if you like, its your choice. But any manufacturer that 'designs a sunroof for their car' and that car has a structural weakness and does not strengthen the structure should not be designing cars at all ! If you think the roof panels were thicker an old time mini you are fooling your self, that's fine by me. As to your leaky sun roof, what car was this? I was a main dealer mechanic and no roof I ever fitted leaked. We had to guarantee our work! . VAG is just another Corporation, they are not your mates and its only goal is make a profit and more profit every year that is all they are. I suppose you all hate me now, so be it, just don't BS around me and I wont bother you.
 

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I am sorry I have upset you all by showing you VAG devotees what was the real problem is, you can excuse it if you like, its your choice. But any manufacturer that 'designs a sunroof for their car' and that car has a structural weakness and does not strengthen the structure should not be designing cars at all ! If you think the roof panels were thicker an old time mini you are fooling your self, that's fine by me. As to your leaky sun roof, what car was this? I was a main dealer mechanic and no roof I ever fitted leaked. We had to guarantee our work! . VAG is just another Corporation, they are not your mates and its only goal is make a profit and more profit every year that is all they are. I suppose you all hate me now, so be it, just don't BS around me and I wont bother you.
Just for the record, you have not upset me !.
Like yourself, am now a long retired tech of over 40 years experience.
In that time, I worked for a large dealership that had a main workshop with over twenty lifts and a lower floor bodyshop of equal size.
I gave up counting the number of training courses ( some good, some bad ) that I have attended over them many many years.
Back in the day, I have been lucky enough to have the fantastic privilege of working / driving pretty everything, from a Citroen 2cv to an Aston Martin.
Regarding your comment - "If you think the roof panels were thicker an old time mini you are fooling your self".
Let me just say this :-
Put a 1.0mm cutting disk in an angle grinder, and put it to work on the panel of a classic mini e.g.
Then repeat the process on a modern car, you know the answer to this one !.
Regarding your comment over the glass sun roof's fitted, way back in the 70's.
If you could cut out the roof out of a classic mini and then fitted an after market glass sun roof of the day, then put your hand on your heart and say it would NOT leak in the future, then you can walk on water friend !.
Firstly, the classic mini was NEVER designed to have this level of material removed from the roof.
The small and difficult shape of roof, it was never conducive to accommodate an aftermarket glass sun roof.
The back of the glass roof would clamp down on a crappy after market rubber seal, that would only do a 100% job of keeping the water out for a very small amount of time.
As the rubber became more compressed, then water would creep under the seal and therefore leak into the car.
There was no internal provision for water catchment, so you got wet knees.
You know I am correct here of course.
Larger cars with a flatter profile roof, you where okay here ...... ish.
Our dealership refused point blank to fit a glass roof to a classic mini.
I have lost count of how many different cars I have worked on that have been fitted with factory OEM steel / glass roof's over the years.
Personally myself, I have owed at least six cars with a OEM glass or steel roof combo and I have not had any problem with any of them ?..
Some where VAG, but some not all.
One BMW 3 series ( 1993 reg ) with a manual steel roof, I owned for over twelve years and it never leaked.
Maybe I have been lucky, who knows ???.
To date, the only issue I have ever come across on a OEM sun roof is blocked drain tubes that run inside of the windscreen pillars.
If these are cleaned out on a regular basis, all appears fine in my case.
Only tomorrow, I am testing driving a car that has a FULL pano roof, the front section is electric and is retractable.
The rear section is fixed but is over the rear seat section.
The BBC has issued a yellow weather warning of heavy rain, so I will take an umbrella just in case the roof leaks !.
Just for the record, I am no VAG or anybodies "Fan Boy".
Believe me - like you, I have heard every B.S. story there is to be heard numerous times, and I am still hearing them after all of these years.
Don't even get me started on this one !.
The so called tech's of today are only able to fix what the lap top tells them.
Gone are the days when tech's diagnosed & rectified problems themselves.
Please go point the finger at somebody else ???.
I could truly write a book on the subject fellow tech !.
 

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Hi ya Carte, let me say first I like nearly all of your posts you may have noticed and I am sure we could spend an evening sharing stories from our past. But lets not not side step the issue, the VAG Corporation like all others solely exists to make a profit. Their OWN designed sun roof fitment leads to the roof cracking to a shocking extent, have you checked it out, have you seen the pictures? Are you not shocked? As to BMW, how long had they known about the fire hazard? When did they respond? Only when ordinary people filmed them burning with their mobile phones, BMWs PR machine couldn't threaten them with loss of revenue. By the way Honda's Jazz burns quite well too! And they both have, those air bags that IF they work, spray shrapnel into the cabin!


The new move from VAGs huge PR machine is, the diesel scandal was a good thing because the money from the fines goes to good causes! !!!!!!! The faithful will cling to this good news.


They are to be congratulated for going Electric, why are they doing it so fast, because Tesla is killing their sales of big cars, Audi, Merc, Bmw, because its all about the money.


How many court cases are on going with all the German manufacturers at the moment? Have you checked? Did you know about the DSG gearbox? Only when a Coroners court found that a mechanical defect led to a fatality, they quickly recalled 26,000 cars, they do not care. And now now the Tiguan with the EA189 engine has been flagged with guess what another cheat device! Works with outside air temp, you see they do not care! They made 5,000,000 of those engines over 10yrs before they got caught 4,700,000 are still driving around, 300,000 are parked up in the USA , some at ports, ready to be shipped some where? Why didn't they redesign during that time to correct the engines deficiencies? Why haven't they redesigned it for the Tiguan?


Even with court cases on going they still produce cars that damage the environment and human beings. When I pick up/drop my G/kids off at school and I see and smell the diesel golfs ticking over with the air con on if its warm or the heater on because its cold I think of those school kids breathing all that shit in, don't you? There is a lot more that could be said about these greedy Corporations, we are not talking about our favourite football teams here, anyway lets leave it at that. If I see another BS rust post I will be posting about VAGs rust problem stretching from MK4 Golf and running though to the MK5, I haven't checked later models but I might, why didn't they fix that? Anyway that's enough, I have a life to get on with all the best malc
 

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Hi ya Carte, let me say first I like nearly all of your posts you may have noticed and I am sure we could spend an evening sharing stories from our past. But lets not not side step the issue, the VAG Corporation like all others solely exists to make a profit. Their OWN designed sun roof fitment leads to the roof cracking to a shocking extent, have you checked it out, have you seen the pictures? Are you not shocked? As to BMW, how long had they known about the fire hazard? When did they respond? Only when ordinary people filmed them burning with their mobile phones, BMWs PR machine couldn't threaten them with loss of revenue. By the way Honda's Jazz burns quite well too! And they both have, those air bags that IF they work, spray shrapnel into the cabin!


The new move from VAGs huge PR machine is, the diesel scandal was a good thing because the money from the fines goes to good causes! !!!!!!! The faithful will cling to this good news.


They are to be congratulated for going Electric, why are they doing it so fast, because Tesla is killing their sales of big cars, Audi, Merc, Bmw, because its all about the money.


How many court cases are on going with all the German manufacturers at the moment? Have you checked? Did you know about the DSG gearbox? Only when a Coroners court found that a mechanical defect led to a fatality, they quickly recalled 26,000 cars, they do not care. And now now the Tiguan with the EA189 engine has been flagged with guess what another cheat device! Works with outside air temp, you see they do not care! They made 5,000,000 of those engines over 10yrs before they got caught 4,700,000 are still driving around, 300,000 are parked up in the USA , some at ports, ready to be shipped some where? Why didn't they redesign during that time to correct the engines deficiencies? Why haven't they redesigned it for the Tiguan?


Even with court cases on going they still produce cars that damage the environment and human beings. When I pick up/drop my G/kids off at school and I see and smell the diesel golfs ticking over with the air con on if its warm or the heater on because its cold I think of those school kids breathing all that shit in, don't you? There is a lot more that could be said about these greedy Corporations, we are not talking about our favourite football teams here, anyway lets leave it at that. If I see another BS rust post I will be posting about VAGs rust problem stretching from MK4 Golf and running though to the MK5, I haven't checked later models but I might, why didn't they fix that? Anyway that's enough, I have a life to get on with all the best malc
Hi Malc - Great write up, thanks !.
It’s all about the money honey, as they say !.
The black billowing smoke that is emitted from the back of some of these oil burners is just disgusting !.
My wife always questions how this car get through the MOT ?.
Well, I have a friend who I went through college with a long time ago now.
He has taken over his dad’s garage and MOT station.
I asked him the very same question, the answer I received was this :- “Okay at the time of test”.
The manufactures keep wanting to sell big profit ICE cars, but they know the rules surrounding them are getting tougher to achieve !.
So what do they do to extend the life of these cars, cheat is the answer.
They are able to “fiddle” the ECU to recognise when it is under MOT condition.
Clever, but clearly incorrect in every way shape and form.
It smacks of “Going through the motions”.
Like in the way we install speed bumps in the road to reduce the speed of the traffic.
Does this traffic calming measure work, no not really.
Why, because the careful drivers always respected the road situation anyway, but now they have to risk the early wear of the suspensions components just for good measure.
On the other hand, the fast driving “White van” men with 100 parcels to delivery in shift, pay no regard to these obstacles.
The lorries and local single decker buses make no attempt to even slow down, because they don’t even feel them while crossing !.
They are just paying “Lip Service” to the people who complain about fast moving traffic around schools etc.
Two completely different subjects but with the same result.
Tell people what they want to hear.
Genuine :- “Mushroom Syndrome”.
Kept in the dark and feed with shit.
It’s a game of :- “Smoke and mirrors”.
Rant over for today Malc !.

Take good care out there !.
 

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I'll be having a short test drive at the MG dealers near Cambridge this Saturday 5th.

The EV Man did a pretty fair review:
Yes, it's built to a price, but so the important things are good, except maybe the infotainment, so as long as you're willing to use your smartphone and zap-map you'll be fine.

I'm not worried about the badge, hopefully MG will gain credibility over the next few years, like Skoda did, and they even talked at the launch about putting prices up over time because of that.
 

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I am in two minds about this car, only had a short drive in a preproduction exclusive, it drove well and has a lot of safety kit but lacks a lot of basic EV software such as charge timers preheat etc. I think its discounted price should be it's real price. If it were £27-28k after picg I would get the Kia Soul. Would prefer an SUV but the are cheap lease deals for 38kwh Ioniq at the moment. Waiting for test drives on both before making final decision
 

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Hi Malc - Great write up, thanks !.
It’s all about the money honey, as they say !.
The black billowing smoke that is emitted from the back of some of these oil burners is just disgusting !.
My wife always questions how this car get through the MOT ?.
Well, I have a friend who I went through college with a long time ago now.
He has taken over his dad’s garage and MOT station.
I asked him the very same question, the answer I received was this :- “Okay at the time of test”.
The manufactures keep wanting to sell big profit ICE cars, but they know the rules surrounding them are getting tougher to achieve !.
So what do they do to extend the life of these cars, cheat is the answer.
They are able to “fiddle” the ECU to recognise when it is under MOT condition.
Clever, but clearly incorrect in every way shape and form.
It smacks of “Going through the motions”.
Like in the way we install speed bumps in the road to reduce the speed of the traffic.
Does this traffic calming measure work, no not really.
Why, because the careful drivers always respected the road situation anyway, but now they have to risk the early wear of the suspensions components just for good measure.
On the other hand, the fast driving “White van” men with 100 parcels to delivery in shift, pay no regard to these obstacles.
The lorries and local single decker buses make no attempt to even slow down, because they don’t even feel them while crossing !.
They are just paying “Lip Service” to the people who complain about fast moving traffic around schools etc.
Two completely different subjects but with the same result.
Tell people what they want to hear.
Genuine :- “Mushroom Syndrome”.
Kept in the dark and feed with shit.
It’s a game of :- “Smoke and mirrors”.
Rant over for today Malc !.

Take good care out there !.
Thanks for the reply. I think all diesels should have to have a service schedule by law, I know the devil is the detail mentioning law, but how else can we get them at least to a cleanish level. People just cant just throw them away. So we have to ween them off ices over time. I was behind a 5 yr old Toyota Diesel with a middle aged trilby wearing idiot, driving along like a destroyer laying a smoke screen!!
I went to Banbury yesterday and there is an MG /Reno dealer there so I went in and they had a Red Exite on the front.They were great, they said it was going on a test run any minute but opened it up and let me sit in it and have look around. I still think it is a really good value car, It will suit us down to the ground, the easy access will be good, all those years of doing foreigners on my back in the road has taken its toll. I wasn't sure the Ioniq would be okay being low but with electric seat moving back a good few inches when the door is opened it is fine. I foolishly picked a Subaru/MG dealer close to us and they are crap they have no idea. They offered me a crap part ex £2000 less than 'we buy any car'! I sold it to 'we buy any car' as I didn't want to have problems with selling private with a car worth £18000 a lot of money to loose.
So I went to look at the Banbury dealer because they do EVs already, it was refreshing to say the least, so I asked about a service plan. 5yrs 8000 mls pa £16.03 pm. I will carry on with the Subaru dealer but when I get the car they can take a long walk off a short pier. Do you get upset when you go into a garage and they try the normal BS not knowing you worked in a garages/s and know all the tricks? I am hoping like every one that the wait is not too long as I sold my petrol MPV well before the plate change to get the best price. so we are down to the Ioniq and we live in a village, but I got used to this stuff with Hyundai and they have been doing this for years so I will give MG a more than chance. Carty, I bet you could tell some good stories like me. take care malc
 

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I am in two minds about this car, only had a short drive in a preproduction exclusive, it drove well and has a lot of safety kit but lacks a lot of basic EV software such as charge timers preheat etc. I think its discounted price should be it's real price. If it were £27-28k after picg I would get the Kia Soul. Would prefer an SUV but the are cheap lease deals for 38kwh Ioniq at the moment. Waiting for test drives on both before making final decision
The Ioniq is a great BEV I have the 19 plate 28 kwh with 8000mls on it and I have ordered a 38kwh . If the boot is big enough for you I think you will be more than happy. I am also going to buy the MG I have sold a 67 plate MPV so I can afford the MG (lucky old me) we need the bigger size for for the grand kids week ends/hols etc. The Ioniq is very efficient we are getting 5.2 ave over all with the Mrs getting 6.4! (she keeps reminding me) I've had 5.7 out of it but I love the 30-50 50-70 torque, it is electrifying so my range is less. On a private road it does over 100 mph. The Ioniq has regen through flippers behind the steering wheel and there are 3 levels but also Coasting, it is a brilliant idea why the other manufacturers don't have this I don't know. I cant explain it well in a post but Robert from fully charged does a fair job here is a link


Fully charged Ioniq


he says early on, big claims have been made on the range which he poo poos but later on he changes his mind. Any way hope you get the car that suits you.


Funny thing Bjorn Nyland doesn't like my new cars but we don't need to fast charge, in fact with the kids 40mins is more like the time we would need feed um and let them run around to get them them tired.
 
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