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DS3 Crossback E-Tense
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
It was all going too well. DS3 Crossback E-Tense came in Feb and I am very happy with it. On the same day I had my Rolec charger installed and had an excellent experience with the installation company. And shortly after that Octopus Energy got in touch to say my smart meter installation could take place this past Monday.

Meter installed and... failed to handshake with the network. My understanding is that the smart meter infrastructure is managed by DCC and piggybacks off the O2 network. Problem is that the O2 network in my area isn't spectacular (usually one bar on my phone). They've flagged it with DCC but have said it could be into 2022 before the signal is improved in our area. My hope is that a few more people get smart meter installations and have similar signal problems so it might strengthen my case - I'm not way out in the sticks so it might happen.

Annoying as I was hoping to get on the Go Faster tariff or any EV tariff to be honest, but with the smart meter only acting dumb, it's not going to be possible.

Have others had similar issues with their smart meters, preventing them moving to an EV electricity tariff?
 

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My smart meters do not work.

In my case the gas meter will not pair with the electric meter. Too far apart it seems, it is the electric meter that sends both readings, so EDF only receive the electric reading.
 

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The fix for this is, as you say, for others in your area to get smart meters, as then your meter can piggy-back from them to get a connection to the DCC. It's extremely unlikely that there will be any changes to the WAN, which is provided via Telefonica in the south of the UK, and Arquiva in the north (the two networks are technically different). The ability to piggy-back from one meter to another neighbouring meter, in a sort of daisy chain, until one of the meters can connect to the WAN, is the main solution for poor connectivity, however there are enhanced antenna kits available for some models of smart meter, intended for use in areas where properties both have a low WAN signal strength and where they may be spaced too far apart for the piggy-back connectivity to work (the latter is really only suitable for fairly densely packed housing). Might be worth enquiring if there's an enhanced antenna kit available for your model of smart meter, although I have heard that suppliers aren't always that switched on when it comes to these.
 

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DS3 Crossback E-Tense
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
My smart meters do not work.

In my case the gas meter will not pair with the electric meter. Too far apart it seems, it is the electric meter that sends both readings, so EDF only receive the electric reading.
They've said my gas meter and electric meter may be too far apart too, and every once in a while I might have to keep the electric cupboard door open to make sure they connect. Hopefully once things do start working they'll be able to handshake as the distance isn't huge.

The fix for this is, as you say, for others in your area to get smart meters, as then your meter can piggy-back from them to get a connection to the DCC. It's extremely unlikely that there will be any changes to the WAN, which is provided via Telefonica in the south of the UK, and Arquiva in the north (the two networks are technically different). The ability to piggy-back from one meter to another neighbouring meter, in a sort of daisy chain, until one of the meters can connect to the WAN, is the main solution for poor connectivity, however there are enhanced antenna kits available for some models of smart meter, intended for use in areas where properties both have a low WAN signal strength and where they may be spaced too far apart for the piggy-back connectivity to work (the latter is really only suitable for fairly densely packed housing). Might be worth enquiring if there's an enhanced antenna kit available for your model of smart meter, although I have heard that suppliers aren't always that switched on when it comes to these.
I didn't know it was Arquiva - every day's a school day so thanks for the education. My installer did talk about the potential for the meter to piggyback off others. I guess I should keep trying to get the handshake going every week or so on my meter display to see if it can talk to any others and get a signal.

Also, thanks for the idea on the enhanced antenna kit - will look into it :)
 

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The fix for this is, as you say, for others in your area to get smart meters, as then your meter can piggy-back from them to get a connection to the DCC. It's extremely unlikely that there will be any changes to the WAN, which is provided via Telefonica in the south of the UK, and Arquiva in the north (the two networks are technically different). The ability to piggy-back from one meter to another neighbouring meter, in a sort of daisy chain, until one of the meters can connect to the WAN, is the main solution for poor connectivity, however there are enhanced antenna kits available for some models of smart meter, intended for use in areas where properties both have a low WAN signal strength and where they may be spaced too far apart for the piggy-back connectivity to work (the latter is really only suitable for fairly densely packed housing). Might be worth enquiring if there's an enhanced antenna kit available for your model of smart meter, although I have heard that suppliers aren't always that switched on when it comes to these.
North of England and Scotland use a low frequency radio network to communicate, nothing at all in common with mobile phone networks.

Where does the OP bide?
 

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DS3 Crossback E-Tense
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
North of England and Scotland use a low frequency radio network to communicate, nothing at all in common with mobile phone networks.

Where does the OP bide?
West Yorkshire, so you may be right in terms of the LF radio network then.
 

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North of England and Scotland use a low frequency radio network to communicate, nothing at all in common with mobile phone networks.

Where does the OP bide?

That's what I wrote, the North uses the Arquiva WAN, the South uses the Telefonica WAN, and, also as I wrote, both are technically different.

As he has mentioned Arquiva, in reply to my post, I think it's safe to say it is in the north.
 

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The South has in fact two different Comms systems. One uses mesh/ piggybacking, the other does not.

It's irrelevant for the OP whether neighbours etc install Smartmeters, that's not how the LF Comms work at all.
 

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Have you checked n3rgy to see if it's just Octopus that are having problems getting the data? (Unlikely, I know, but maybe worth a check)
 

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DS3 Crossback E-Tense
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Have you checked n3rgy to see if it's just Octopus that are having problems getting the data? (Unlikely, I know, but maybe worth a check)
That was a good call, but no luck. Smart meter is in dumb mode so I don't think the IHD will get any data from it. Guess I'll probably just have to wait for DCC to respond ( I believe they have a set amount of time) or I'll hassle Octopus in another month or two to send someone to come and check it again.

Otherwise I probably won't know if the signal ever becomes strong enough to use.
 

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The South has in fact two different Comms systems. One uses mesh/ piggybacking, the other does not.

It's irrelevant for the OP whether neighbours etc install Smartmeters, that's not how the LF Comms work at all.

I think you're just looking for an argument, so I'll butt out. Suffice to say that my original reply was, as you well know, correct, given the information available from the post I was responding too at that time. Not sure what I wrote that caused you to suggest I'd posted something that was untrue, perhaps you didn't actually read it?
 

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Kia e-Niro 4 MY20, Zoe Z.E.50 GT Line
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You're not the first person to say it doesn't work in parts of West Yorkshire. I'm in the position where I live is in the arbitrary 450MHz area, infrastructure and kit for which doesn't even exist, so although they've installed a meter, it can't be commissioned. They won't even try.

The entire smart metering system is a complete farce. It doesn't work and it seems impossible to find anyone who cares. I've so far written to my MP, a futile manoeuvre but you have to try, Ofgem, the ombudsman, Arqiva and the DCC. Arqiva don't respond, much like my MP. DCC tell you to go away. Ofgem and the ombudsman don't cover it and only tackle metering problems rather than shitty infrastructure.

Really, nobody cares.

The problem has been in given the job to Arqiva who cannot provide the necessary coverage and nobody is holding them to account.

Eventually the utilities will start to care because the next phase of metering will likely be water. When more metering equipment is installed, and it simply doesn't work, eventually something will get done but my personal prediction is we're looking at minimum five years. There'll be Smets3,4 or 5 that will "absolutely fix the issues" :cautious:

As for gas meters, that's another guaranteed fail in many circumstances.

If you're in a modern build where services come through neighbouring ducts and enter the house next to each other... great. Zigbee on 2.4GHz is used between the meters and it's fine for short range, low power, low throughput data links. Perfect for the job. What it won't do is cover distance or go through a few walls. My house is small but solid 2.4GHz Wi-Fi barely makes it around the house. Zigbee is much lower power, so I know that it isn't going to work.

It seems to have taken everybody involved in this piss poor project by complete surprise that we don't all live in modern houses.
 

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The fix for this is, as you say, for others in your area to get smart meters, as then your meter can piggy-back from them to get a connection to the DCC. It's extremely unlikely that there will be any changes to the WAN, which is provided via Telefonica in the south of the UK, and Arquiva in the north (the two networks are technically different). The ability to piggy-back from one meter to another neighbouring meter, in a sort of daisy chain, until one of the meters can connect to the WAN, is the main solution for poor connectivity, however there are enhanced antenna kits available for some models of smart meter, intended for use in areas where properties both have a low WAN signal strength and where they may be spaced too far apart for the piggy-back connectivity to work (the latter is really only suitable for fairly densely packed housing). Might be worth enquiring if there's an enhanced antenna kit available for your model of smart meter, although I have heard that suppliers aren't always that switched on when it comes to these.
The mesh network is specific to the Telefonica/GPRS units for the south. The Arqiva/LRR comms hubs don't do this.
 

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That was a good call, but no luck. Smart meter is in dumb mode so I don't think the IHD will get any data from it. Guess I'll probably just have to wait for DCC to respond ( I believe they have a set amount of time) or I'll hassle Octopus in another month or two to send someone to come and check it again.

Otherwise I probably won't know if the signal ever becomes strong enough to use.
If by "wait for the DCC to respond" you're hoping they'll respond to you, they won't. The DCC is a little bit like Openreach. They don't deal with the end user at all. You're not their customer, the energy company/government is. Same with Arqiva. At least the DCC will have the good manners to tell you they won't talk to you. Arqiva will just ignore your calls and e-mails.
 

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The mesh network is specific to the Telefonica/GPRS units for the south. The Arqiva/LRR comms hubs don't do this.

Yes, I did know this, thanks, but at the time I made that post no one here, other than the OP, knew which WAN the meter was trying to connect to. It's also why I specifically mentioned the antenna kit, as, AFAIK, that's only an option for the Arquiva WAN.

Anyway, life's too short to get flack here for just trying to be helpful.

"So long, and thanks for all the fish" (and that's for you, @freddym )
 

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I'm in Bingley and in the same boat. Bingley is a pretty big town, I live 5 mins walk from the town centre and train station, yet they can't get comms with my smart meter and yet they claim 99% coverage of the north, cobblers.

I did get this response from my request for advice from smartme.co.uk :

Hi Paul,
It is difficult to give advice without seeing the SMETS2 coverage data which only the suppliers have access to. We tried to get it but were told it’s confidential. This coverage data tells the supplier the date coverage will be made available and what aerials are need (if any) to get communications working.

For SMETS2 meters the company providing the WAN communications has 90 days to fix it if it doesn’t work – this process is called “install and leave”. However contractually they are only obliged to get it fixed in 99% of cases.

Our advice would be to wait, reminding the supplier every 3 months that you’d like it fixed. There is a chance it will be fixed in the next few years if the company providing the WAN find that they need to get more meters communicating to meet their contractual obligations for coverage.

There are no rights as such to a working smart meter.


Regards, The SmartMe Team
 
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Evezy referral code: d4113
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It's also why I specifically mentioned the antenna kit, as, AFAIK, that's only an option for the Arquiva WAN.
Hi Jeremy, have you got anymore info on this or links to info?
Thanks Paul
 

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DS3 Crossback E-Tense
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I'm in Bingley and in the same boat. Bingley is a pretty big town, I live 5 mins walk from the town centre and train station, yet they can't get comms with my smart meter and yet they claim 99% coverage of the north, cobblers.

I did get this response from my request for advice from smartme.co.uk :

Hi Paul,
It is difficult to give advice without seeing the SMETS2 coverage data which only the suppliers have access to. We tried to get it but were told it’s confidential. This coverage data tells the supplier the date coverage will be made available and what aerials are need (if any) to get communications working.

For SMETS2 meters the company providing the WAN communications has 90 days to fix it if it doesn’t work – this process is called “install and leave”. However contractually they are only obliged to get it fixed in 99% of cases.

Our advice would be to wait, reminding the supplier every 3 months that you’d like it fixed. There is a chance it will be fixed in the next few years if the company providing the WAN find that they need to get more meters communicating to meet their contractual obligations for coverage.

There are no rights as such to a working smart meter.


Regards, The SmartMe Team
Thanks for that. Yeah I guess I'm in the same boat so I'll just have to keep reminding Octopus I'm waiting (y)
 

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Thanks for that. Yeah I guess I'm in the same boat so I'll just have to keep reminding Octopus I'm waiting (y)
Sorry to hear this.

If you're stuck on the Octopus variable tariff, you may want to shop around. I had the most expensive few days of electricity in my adult life while I was waiting for the meter hook-up, etc and spent it on their variable tariff.
 

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DS3 Crossback E-Tense
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Sorry to hear this.

If you're stuck on the Octopus variable tariff, you may want to shop around. I had the most expensive few days of electricity in my adult life while I was waiting for the meter hook-up, etc and spent it on their variable tariff.
I'm on the Fixed 12 month tariff (I think but no exit fees so I'm alright in that regard) which is 15.5p/kWh. I'll keep my eyes open for good deals and have also spotted a few free Engie chargers locally too so might make use of them whilst they remain free.
 
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