[Paul_Moxhay]

The Vauxhall Ampera is a good car... no, IMO it is a great car in so many ways... but we have had ours over 2 years now and for some reason I have not gelled with it. Couple that with the fact that we gave up a Land Rover Freelander to get it and perhaps it is not too surprising that I see the Mitsubishi Outlander and I want one!

So, I am seriously considering a change... selling the Ampera and buying an Outlander.

The word "mad" comes to mind but that is OK... I have had that said about me many times. I don't mind. I see that life if for living and we all make our own choices and as long as we are happy with the choices we make then who is to say we are wrong

So, we are hoping to get to see the dealer on Thursday and perhaps set up an all-day test drive.

Anyone want a 2012 Ampera, 22k miles... never raced or rallied

 

[Paul_Moxhay]

Will you be able to cope with the reduced electric range?

Yes I believe so because we rarely use the Ampera as an EV beyond the range of Plymouth (5 miles) but we could do that several times a day so with regular charging at home that will be fine.

I am curious to what the actual mpg figures are when running on petrol (i.e. after the battery is empty). The Ampera returns about 48mpg at normal motorway speeds. I would expect the Mitsu to be slightly worse but not by much.

 

[Paul_Moxhay]

Thanks for all the comments.

It would be different for sure. The Ampera does drive on all electric except when being really pushed. When it is out of battery it isn't really. It just means the battery has hit the minimum allowed. The petrol then kicks in and out to maintain that minimum battery level. It is very clever. MOUNTAIN mode simply raises the minimum battery level to 40% and then the petrol kicks in and out to maintain 40%. No different to when "empty".

From what you have said it sounds like the Outlander is more like the Prius where it uses battery at low speed and a combination at higher speeds. Does that sound right?

I think the CHAdeMO for me would mean I do much more EV miles. On long trips right now I never charge. 16A charging on a long trip just isn't viable so I don't. I would not use the Outlander like a BEV... hopping from one rapid to the next... but everyone has to stop and so when I do if I stop where there is a rapid it then I will charge. I could certainly see myself charging at least once or twice on most long trips and that is once or twice more than I would do in the Ampera.

The lower petrol MPG figure would to some degree be compensated by the additional charging. I think it would be difficult to determine which is better overall as that would depend on individual use, how often you stop to charge etc. But for us I am pretty certain from gut-feel that on most trips overall I whould use less petrol in the Outlander.

I would miss the performance of the Ampera for sure but I have a Leaf which for me is the nicer car to drive so I'll get my EV "away from the lights" fun with that

We won't be towing as our caravan is 1800kg but it does give us an option to downsize if we want. Did the "Tow Car of the Year" test use a diesel Outlander or the PHEV because the I would expect the torque of the electric motor to perform much better on hills than the straight diesel. It will be good to see a two test of the PHEV Outlander.

Good stuff

 

[Paul_Moxhay]

Booked a 4 hr test on Thursday... I'll let you know what I think

 

[Paul_Moxhay]

Can you explain that?!

I have never had my Ampera run on anything but electric EVEN when being REALLY pushed. in Electric mode the car is FULLY electric full stop.

Well I have always believed the blurb from Vauxhall/Chevrolet on this and that is what they say. However, it is open to interpretation and your experience suggested that I might have misinterpreted... so I have just gone out and done a test.

You are right... I could not get the ICE to kick in ant any speed (aaahm! Don't ask ). So I have to defer to you on this... the Ampera when it has battery power is only an EV in Normal and Sport modes.

However, I did try some other tests... if I went into Hold mode and let the ICE start then things are more as I describe... that is to say that the ICE provides the power but if you push it then it takes power from both the ICE and battery but whether the 3rd clutch is engaged and the mechanical power is being used I do not know.

So not a complete answer but it does confirm that when the battery is above the zero it is an EV only car.

 

[Paul_Moxhay]

It was the PHEV, I was just reading that article at the weekend (my bro has just bought a caravan so had the magazine in his house). They didn't rate it too highly so I wouldn't be choosing it if I had a lot of towing to do. Mind you, it's probably the best EV option for that isn't it?

Fair enough... I try to avoid 1 in 6 hills when towing anyway

 

[Paul_Moxhay]

@Flaninacupboard It isn't a plug in... it cost £45k+ vs £28k for the Outlander ! Nuff said.

 

[Paul_Moxhay]

Thanks Edd but we are only considering plug in vehicles.

Remember... we have a perfectly good one already in the Ampera... so we wouldn't go back to a non-plug in car unless we had no real choice

 

[Paul_Moxhay]

Just back from a 3hr test drive in the Outlander. It was H version, so middle spec.

General - We have had SUVs before and we liked the Outlander. I thought the build felt a bit "tinny" and so I didn't think it exuded quality but it seemed perfectly fine. Inside was tidy and workmanlike rather than a WOW but again... perfectly fine. SatNav was without doubt better than the Ampera! Seating was comfortable and visibility pretty good.

So overall we definitely liked it.

Driving - Driving was again workmanlike rather than spritely but it didn't ever feel sluggish but I felt it may be a little underwhelming with a caravan on the back but as I didn't tow with it I wouldn't know. There was quite a bit of roll in the corners... more than our Freelander for sure. The biggest point of contention for me was the brakes... I couldn't get a smooth stop and I found I was causing a jerky feel when I started braking too. Perhaps I would get used to the brakes and it would improve but it was quite noticeable.

One thing I loved was the paddles to control regen. It allows you to maximise regen to control speed. I loved it. The instrumentation was pretty good too with a single dial showing power use and that allowed me to find the glide point easily although one of the regen settings, B0, was a glide mode when you went feet off. Excellent.

EV and Charging - The idea of putting CHAdeMO onto a PHEV is inspired IMO. Although the petrol fuel consumption is bound to be worse than the Ampera due to its size and shape that can be mitigated to a degree by occasionally rapid charging when on a long trip. In fact, I calculated that providing you charge every 80 miles it is likely to return better overall mpg than the Ampera. Impressive.

We ran out the battery and then drove for about 40 miles on petrol only over a mix of 60mph faster roads and slower and hilly A roads and we returned 47mpg. This was a huge surprise and it showed that over many journeys, even beyond battery range, this car should return some impressive MPG figures. Certainly the petrol MPG didn't put us off.

Conclusion - For an SUV a very good car. EV implementation seems pretty good, instrumentation similarly good and masses of space. However, in spite of all the things we liked about it is it worth the £14,000+ it is going to take for us to ditch the Ampera and get an Outlander? Probably not I am sorry to say because I did like the car and if I was in the market for a SUV replacing an older car I could easily be tempted but the Ampera is only 2 years old and so we are still taking the depreciation hit from buying new and buying a new model/tech.

To all those that are getting an Outlander or have got one already... I am jealous... but not £14k jealous!

 

[Paul_Moxhay]

With a relatively low real world EV range of say 25 miles, wouldn't you get tired of the constant plugging in and out to make it worthwhile given that you have a Leaf for most local journeys?

Wouldn't need to "constantly" but you would need to plug in now and then on trips if we wanted to get better MPG than the Ampera... once on a 100 mile leg would be enough.

 

[Paul_Moxhay]

I love SUVs. I love having the space... it is like owning a van. I love the high driving position. I like their ruggedness.

But then again, I like more sporty cars too and this is where the Ampera wins of course. We had a Land Rover Freelander 3 and that was an SUV with a bit of a sporty feel and that is probably why we liked the Freelander so much.

We were sad to see it go but we wanted the Ampera more. I think what has happened is that I haven't taken to the Ampera as much as I had hoped and so I now pine for the Freelander again but it is not a plug in (yet!) so the only option was to consider the Outlander if we wanted an SUV. Of course, the Outlander is no Freelander. That is perhaps the problem!

We will stick with the Ampera for a while longer and see what else comes along.

 

[Paul_Moxhay]

Telegraph review here - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring...0940771/Mitsubishi-Outlander-PHEV-review.html

He only managed to achieve 33mpg over 500 miles - presumably he was not plugging in very much.

And he must have been driving pretty fast and without proper use of the regen system to get anything that low.

 

[Paul_Moxhay]

Even if they are electric they are still wasting energy.

To be honest... I am not bothered about the energy use. I don't see it as a waste at all. If I want an SUV then I can expect it to use more energy but it isn't wasted energy because I get the carrying capacity and different driving position and style.

It all I was interested in was getting from A to B then any car is a waste of energy as there are more efficient ways than even a EV... just less convenient or appropriate

In any case... almost all of my energy used on both my EVs and in my house is from 100% renewables so efficiency isn't may main concern.

 

[Paul_Moxhay]

The future value (or lack of ) is all built into the price of the lease. You cant avoid it!

But at least it is known up front and you can plan for it.