Considering a Change of EV

4166 Views 44 Replies 18 Participants Last post by Paul_Moxhay, Jul 5, 2014

Paul_Moxhay

Discussion Starter · Jun 30, 2014

The Vauxhall Ampera is a good car... no, IMO it is a great car in so many ways... but we have had ours over 2 years now and for some reason I have not gelled with it. Couple that with the fact that we gave up a Land Rover Freelander to get it and perhaps it is not too surprising that I see the Mitsubishi Outlander and I want one!

So, I am seriously considering a change... selling the Ampera and buying an Outlander.

The word "mad" comes to mind but that is OK... I have had that said about me many times. I don't mind. I see that life if for living and we all make our own choices and as long as we are happy with the choices we make then who is to say we are wrong

So, we are hoping to get to see the dealer on Thursday and perhaps set up an all-day test drive.

Anyone want a 2012 Ampera, 22k miles... never raced or rallied

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21 - 40 of 45 Posts

Paul_Moxhay

Discussion Starter · #21 · Jul 1, 2014

Thanks Edd but we are only considering plug in vehicles.

Remember... we have a perfectly good one already in the Ampera... so we wouldn't go back to a non-plug in car unless we had no real choice

smartie

· #22 · Jul 1, 2014

With a relatively low real world EV range of say 25 miles, wouldn't you get tired of the constant plugging in and out to make it worthwhile given that you have a Leaf for most local journeys?

Olivier

· #23 · Jul 1, 2014

smartie said:
With a relatively low real world EV range of say 25 miles, wouldn't you get tired of the constant plugging in and out to make it worthwhile given that you have a Leaf for most local journeys?

I am with Paul on that, I think I will use the Rapid charge. I won't stop to recharge at the end of the EV range but when I do the normal rest & coffee & snack stop. That normally takes about 1/2 hour with the family so no real downside as long as rapid charging pricing doesn't become prohibitive.

Reactions: 1

smartie

· #24 · Jul 1, 2014

Yes, very dependent on rapid charger fees - hopefully Chargemaster has not set the template!

Olivier said:
I am with Paul on that, I think I will use the Rapid charge. I won't stop to recharge at the end of the EV range but when I do the normal rest & coffee & snack stop. That normally takes about 1/2 hour with the family so no real downside as long as rapid charging pricing doesn't become prohibitive.

Paul_Moxhay

Discussion Starter · #25 · Jul 3, 2014

Just back from a 3hr test drive in the Outlander. It was H version, so middle spec.

General - We have had SUVs before and we liked the Outlander. I thought the build felt a bit "tinny" and so I didn't think it exuded quality but it seemed perfectly fine. Inside was tidy and workmanlike rather than a WOW but again... perfectly fine. SatNav was without doubt better than the Ampera! Seating was comfortable and visibility pretty good.

So overall we definitely liked it.

Driving - Driving was again workmanlike rather than spritely but it didn't ever feel sluggish but I felt it may be a little underwhelming with a caravan on the back but as I didn't tow with it I wouldn't know. There was quite a bit of roll in the corners... more than our Freelander for sure. The biggest point of contention for me was the brakes... I couldn't get a smooth stop and I found I was causing a jerky feel when I started braking too. Perhaps I would get used to the brakes and it would improve but it was quite noticeable.

One thing I loved was the paddles to control regen. It allows you to maximise regen to control speed. I loved it. The instrumentation was pretty good too with a single dial showing power use and that allowed me to find the glide point easily although one of the regen settings, B0, was a glide mode when you went feet off. Excellent.

EV and Charging - The idea of putting CHAdeMO onto a PHEV is inspired IMO. Although the petrol fuel consumption is bound to be worse than the Ampera due to its size and shape that can be mitigated to a degree by occasionally rapid charging when on a long trip. In fact, I calculated that providing you charge every 80 miles it is likely to return better overall mpg than the Ampera. Impressive.

We ran out the battery and then drove for about 40 miles on petrol only over a mix of 60mph faster roads and slower and hilly A roads and we returned 47mpg. This was a huge surprise and it showed that over many journeys, even beyond battery range, this car should return some impressive MPG figures. Certainly the petrol MPG didn't put us off.

Conclusion - For an SUV a very good car. EV implementation seems pretty good, instrumentation similarly good and masses of space. However, in spite of all the things we liked about it is it worth the £14,000+ it is going to take for us to ditch the Ampera and get an Outlander? Probably not I am sorry to say because I did like the car and if I was in the market for a SUV replacing an older car I could easily be tempted but the Ampera is only 2 years old and so we are still taking the depreciation hit from buying new and buying a new model/tech.

To all those that are getting an Outlander or have got one already... I am jealous... but not £14k jealous!

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Paul_Moxhay

Discussion Starter · #26 · Jul 3, 2014 (Edited)

smartie said:
With a relatively low real world EV range of say 25 miles, wouldn't you get tired of the constant plugging in and out to make it worthwhile given that you have a Leaf for most local journeys?

Wouldn't need to "constantly" but you would need to plug in now and then on trips if we wanted to get better MPG than the Ampera... once on a 100 mile leg would be enough.

knoxie

· #27 · Jul 3, 2014

I dont think its a patch on the Ampera, they are quite different of course but I would go with the Ampera over this, the wifi connection to it rather that a GSM connection is total and utter pants! I dont get the whole big SUV thing though, the thing is still birck like and another big over size car to run a couple of kids to school in.

I am glad you are keeping your money in your Pocket Paul

Reactions: 2

Edd Beesley

· #28 · Jul 3, 2014

knoxie said:
I dont get the whole big SUV thing though, the thing is still birck like and another big over size car to run a couple of kids to school in.

They are very popular though. People who want an SUV will buy one, I think it's good they now have a choice to buy one that uses lots less petrol. Electrifying the least efficient vehicles (even partial electrification!) actually has the biggest benefit, we should celebrate the day we see an electric hummer!

Reactions: 3

Paul_Moxhay

Discussion Starter · #29 · Jul 4, 2014

I love SUVs. I love having the space... it is like owning a van. I love the high driving position. I like their ruggedness.

But then again, I like more sporty cars too and this is where the Ampera wins of course. We had a Land Rover Freelander 3 and that was an SUV with a bit of a sporty feel and that is probably why we liked the Freelander so much.

We were sad to see it go but we wanted the Ampera more. I think what has happened is that I haven't taken to the Ampera as much as I had hoped and so I now pine for the Freelander again but it is not a plug in (yet!) so the only option was to consider the Outlander if we wanted an SUV. Of course, the Outlander is no Freelander. That is perhaps the problem!

We will stick with the Ampera for a while longer and see what else comes along.

Reactions: 1

AndyG

· #30 · Jul 4, 2014

Flaninacupboard said:
They are very popular though. People who want an SUV will buy one, I think it's good they now have a choice to buy one that uses lots less petrol. Electrifying the least efficient vehicles (even partial electrification!) actually has the biggest benefit, we should celebrate the day we see an electric hummer!

Totaly agree, every car on the road should at least have a small battery to store regen from braking etc like the old Prius

Andy

· #31 · Jul 4, 2014

knoxie said:
I dont think its a patch on the Ampera, they are quite different of course but I would go with the Ampera over this, the wifi connection to it rather that a GSM connection is total and utter pants! I dont get the whole big SUV thing though, the thing is still birck like and another big over size car to run a couple of kids to school in.

Fair enough, for just carting 2 small kids about the Outlander is over-sized but it does offer significantly more room inside than an Ampera/i3 REx so I can see the appeal for those that need 5 seats or even for those that have a load of gear/dogs/etc to cart about regularly plus the towing ability.

Having looked at one up close I was impressed and I think it's filling a hole in the market and will hopefully be a success. Nick Clegg has no excuses now

Reactions: 1

derekb

· #32 · Jul 4, 2014 (Edited)

Parax said:
Can you explain that?!

I have never had my Ampera run on anything but electric EVEN when being REALLY pushed. in Electric mode the car is FULLY electric full stop.

Only the [Hold] or [Charge Sustaining] modes use the engine, (cold weather settings can also instigate temporary hold mode.) at no point does "pushing" the car cause the engine to kick in....

Thats my experience too. If I have battery range left it never engages the ICE no matter how you drive. Therefore for 90% of journeys it is just like a true BEV - yet for long journeys you just keep going. At the moment it really is the perfect combination...

Reactions: 4

Edd Beesley

· #33 · Jul 4, 2014

Andy said:
Nick Clegg has no excuses now

Exactly. While it's true that the VX XL1 or the Aptera are more efficient transport choices, we won't win this thing by forcing people out of X5's and into lightweight tricycles, we have to give them the car they want, but electric.

Reactions: 1

smartie

· #34 · Jul 4, 2014

Telegraph review here - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring...0940771/Mitsubishi-Outlander-PHEV-review.html

He only managed to achieve 33mpg over 500 miles - presumably he was not plugging in very much.

Reactions: 1

Paul_Moxhay

Discussion Starter · #35 · Jul 4, 2014

smartie said:
Telegraph review here - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring...0940771/Mitsubishi-Outlander-PHEV-review.html

He only managed to achieve 33mpg over 500 miles - presumably he was not plugging in very much.

And he must have been driving pretty fast and without proper use of the regen system to get anything that low.

Edd Beesley

· #36 · Jul 4, 2014

Paul_Churchley said:
And he must have been driving pretty fast and without proper use of the regen system to get anything that low.

If you (as an experienced eco driver) got 45mpg on 60mph or slower roads, then 33mpg for an auto journalist doing 500 miles sounds about right.

Reactions: 2

Paul

· #37 · Jul 4, 2014

Paul_Churchley said:
I love SUVs. I love having the space... it is like owning a van. I love the high driving position. I like their ruggedness.

But then again, I like more sporty cars too and this is where the Ampera wins of course. We had a Land Rover Freelander 3 and that was an SUV with a bit of a sporty feel and that is probably why we liked the Freelander so much.

We were sad to see it go but we wanted the Ampera more. I think what has happened is that I haven't taken to the Ampera as much as I had hoped and so I now pine for the Freelander again but it is not a plug in (yet!) so the only option was to consider the Outlander if we wanted an SUV. Of course, the Outlander is no Freelander. That is perhaps the problem!

We will stick with the Ampera for a while longer and see what else comes along.

Considered keeping the Ampera and looking at the e-NV200 with the bench seat in the back?

Reactions: 2

nattydread

· #38 · Jul 4, 2014

knoxie said:
I dont get the whole big SUV thing though, the thing is still birck like and another big over size car to run a couple of kids to school in.

absolutely, it is an affront to design and science. How can anything the shape of a brick be a good car, like a land rover with C_D = 0.41!?

It's almost as if they were designed by the oil companies themselves. Hate the things.
Even if they are electric they are still wasting energy.

Olivier

· #39 · Jul 4, 2014

That's the irony of the current EV offering. I'd rather get something like an MPV, say the C4 picasso or the VW Touran but since there's only small size cars available as EV, a whole portion of the eco-concious drivers, including me are going to end up behind the wheel of of a mid-size SUV....

Reactions: 1

Webby

· #40 · Jul 4, 2014

The hybrid route allowed us to come into this market. I had always wanted an electric car but in a family situation with people traveling over 100 miles occasionally but most travel local they tick the right boxes. If we could afford several cars we could make different choices.
As a company we can lease a outlander with out worrying about future values. We would love an electric van but some days we are loaded and do 70 miles plus in the country side. We need some way to limp home. A small petrol motor even if it limited me to 50mph.
The ford transit with an ecotec generator and 70mile range we would buy.

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