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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all, having had to sell a Kia E-Niro 64kwh due to personal circumstances I picked up a Citroen C-Zero for a modest amount, but frankly it really is not up to the job, particularly now I am in Scotland and wanting to drive out into the Highland etc. on a fairly regular basis, so I am looking for something with more range and better handling and comfort on those twisty and rough cross country roads.

I have seen very attractive pcp deals on the N-Connecta 40kWh but I am concerned whether Rapidgate is still an issue as I am likely to do the odd 200 miles plus journey from time to time. Also what other negatives and positives do owners have with the N-Connecta and second gen Leafs in general, e.g. is ride comfort and handling good for the above use.

I have just had a test drive in an MG ZS which scores well on equipment, ride comfort and room, but with slightly cumbersome handling (could live with this) and one or two quirks and limitations. Also the pcp deals are more expensive than the N-Connecta despite the list price being a lot lower.
 

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GOLF GTE PHEV
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The Leaf 2 is superb and no rapidgate problems. I was loaned a MG ZS as a courtesy car and it was decent but not comparable to my E+ Leaf N-Tec (200 mile range in good weather)

There are some great deals on the N-Tec E+ (£25k from Nissan London for a pre registered 15miler), which has almost the same kit as a Tekna.

Checkout this thread:
 

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Leaf e+
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Rapidgate could be a thing on your 3rd rapid charge - and only kicks in if the battery gets too hot. Could be less likely given the climate is cooler in Scotland, but the elevations could heat the pack more...

As the 40kW range is ~135 miles, your 200 mile journey should be no problem given you would only need 1-2 rapid charges. It would be more effective to do 2 smaller rapid charges vs. 1 long one which is less likely to heat the battery too much.

I've an e+ and done 2 rapids in a day (including one at 71kW which really heated the battery) a few times no problem - but that's slightly different in battery setup.
 

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I had a Leaf 40. The charging speed is poor. Range is also poor. It's particularly bad in winter, skimming 100 miles. I've had it slow on the second rapid a bit as well. Also the battery packs can warp which put me right off.

For the bang/buck/range you can't beat a Zoe 40. There are more battery owned now too. R110 has a better heater. There are daft deals on the new ZE50 until the end of June. DSG Morecombe are worth asking to see whether they still have any.
 

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GOLF GTE PHEV
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Rapidgate could be a thing on your 3rd rapid charge - and only kicks in if the battery gets too hot. Could be less likely given the climate is cooler in Scotland, but the elevations could heat the pack more...

As the 40kW range is ~135 miles, your 200 mile journey should be no problem given you would only need 1-2 rapid charges. It would be more effective to do 2 smaller rapid charges vs. 1 long one which is less likely to heat the battery too much.

I've an e+ and done 2 rapids in a day (including one at 71kW which really heated the battery) a few times no problem - but that's slightly different in battery setup.
On my E+, the battery temperature gauge was just past the mid point after a charge from 20 to 91%. The charge rate dropped from 45kw to 30kw above 80%, then 20k above 85% and finally to 6kw above 90%, so I stopped at 91%.
The extra range provided by the last 5% is not not worth waiting for, only giving 5-10miles more.
 

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I had a Leaf 40. The charging speed is poor. Range is also poor. It's particularly bad in winter, skimming 100 miles. I've had it slow on the second rapid a bit as well. Also the battery packs can warp which put me right off.

For the bang/buck/range you can't beat a Zoe 40. There are more battery owned now too. R110 has a better heater. There are daft deals on the new ZE50 until the end of June. DSG Morecombe are worth asking to see whether they still have any.
He's talking about the Leaf 2, which does not suffer from the issues of the older model you have mentioned.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Just to clarify I am looking at a new car pcp deal specifically, I don’t have the funds to buy a new car outright (except for one or two MG ZS Excites out there pre registered 20/70 plate at around £18k under 500 miles). Also right now I don’t want to put all that much money into a car when there is so much change going on in the world of EVs including the potential for prices and used values to drop if we get an invasion of new Chinese brand in the next couple of years. I will try and get a test drive in new Leaf ASAP, and consider whether I want to stretch to a bigger battery option, in the Leaf or other EVs; if I can afford to it might be worth it as I also hope to go touring on the continent in the future.
 

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I've done ~300 miles in a day numerous times without issue.

I've not personally seen rapidgate kick in to know what it looks like and how it affects the 62kW - but it became a bigger issue than it really is... There is plenty of YouTube videos (look at Bjorn Nyland) who go into detail with it. I would suggest doing some research and understand your own attitude to risk of it happening.

Charging speed has been covered many times here before. The e+ is capable of 71kW on a 100kW CHAdeMO charger.
I know this has caused many a discussion - but I rapid charged on one of the new Polar / BP Chargemaster 150kW chargers today - which stated the CHAdeMO connector was 100kW and was able to get 71kW peak. Great that BP are rolling out these rapid charge points across the country and Leaf owners are not being left behind on slower 50kWh speeds.
Here is some more data around charging performance of my e+ on rapids:
To help your concerns around charging speed... Generally most CHAdeMO rapids are 50kW - so you expect to max around 45kWh delivery on them. But then, this would apply to a large majority of rapids regardless of CCS or CHAdeMO.

There are a ton of 150kW BP Chargemaster / Polar rapids going in - including some MSAs which the Leaf e+ can get around 70kW on. There is some detail I captured here with temps etc.

In real world, charging from 20-80% in the e+ (60% of 62 kWh = 37.2 kWh)
@45kWh - 60% charge in ~50 mins
@70kWh - 60% charge in ~32 mins

Here is a capture of all my rapid charges sorted by kWh:
View attachment 136841

On the flip side and worth adding to your considerations - in the Charging discussion subs, particularly around 'older' rapids there seems to be a lot of connectivity problems with CCS. Even Bjorn's videos he's had his fair share of cars which error out during a charge, or fail to start at all. It seems the CCS communication is still flaky at times and could add on time to your charges.
CHAdeMO on the other hand has proven to be far more reliable (particularly with ecotricity MSA chargers), given that the cable / connector has been treated properly. But... there is a rather small number of rapids starting to pop-up which have no CHAdeMO.
With BP Chargemaster / Polar still doing a massive expansion including CHAdeMO I doubt we will start to see a decline of this connector anytime soon.

As for rapid-gate - not seen it yet, but i've not yet done a journey (and it would be very unlikely) to need more than 2 rapids in a day. What is your 'long distance'? I'd say in the e+ it's going to be 500+ miles contiguous before you hit rapid-gate.

I have done 2 rapids in 1 day multiple times, including the 70kW one, without any speed reduction, but I would imagine the third would throttle (particuarly after the 150kW charge). Same table sorted by date:
View attachment 136842
 

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What about 3-400 miles in a day? Is there any rapidgate risk with either battery size? Also what is rapid charging speed like?
The most I've done is about 250miles. First top up at Larkhall Park & Ride at 143miles and then a small top up at Lochgilphead to cover the 30mile return trip from Lgp to my boat.
Max charging speed on a 50kw charger I have seen is 45kw to 80%, then 30kw to 85%, then 20kw to 90, then 6kw above 90.
At home on my 7kw Lefanev charger, it's 6.6kw until 95% then it drops in stages to below 3kw above 98%.
 

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Just to clarify I am looking at a new car pcp deal specifically, I don’t have the funds to buy a new car outright (except for one or two MG ZS Excites out there pre registered 20/70 plate at around £18k under 500 miles). Also right now I don’t want to put all that much money into a car when there is so much change going on in the world of EVs including the potential for prices and used values to drop if we get an invasion of new Chinese brand in the next couple of years. I will try and get a test drive in new Leaf ASAP, and consider whether I want to stretch to a bigger battery option, in the Leaf or other EVs; if I can afford to it might be worth it as I also hope to go touring on the continent in the future.
at the moment, the price difference between the 40 and 62 is roughly only £60 a month on a 36 months PCP. If you are considering long journeys, I would say it is a no brainer
 

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The LEAF 40 is a great EV, roomy, good standard of tech and the software works, when I had my 40, I did numerous trips of 280 miles. Doing this trip, I would usually drive at about 68mph max, at 100 miles, I did the first charge, say 20% to 90% in 45 minutes. The next charge would be at 180 miles and again get up to 85% in 45 minutes, after that the battery temperature gauge would be approaching the red. At this point I had to drive at 58mph draughting a lorry, this brought the battery temperature down, and was able to complete my journey without issue. If I had carried on driving at higher speed, then it would have Cooked the battery and would have probably suffered limited power to the motor, and would have made the next rapid charge almost impossible.

For most people, they won’t experience rapidgate unless doing over 200 Miles in a day.

Doing a 300 mile trip in the 62 is a breeze, the extra battery capacity makes all the difference, because of the better battery layout, it takes a lot to heat the battery up. Although once it does heat up, it can take an age for it to cool down again, having no active cooling and driving at a slower speed doesn’t seem to bring the battery temperature down.

This was the main reason that I jumped from the 40 to the 62 and have never regretted it.

Having no active battery cooling on the 62 is not an issue (unless doing 400 miles in day) but it is an issue in the 40 if doing 200 miles +
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Well I did do West Cornwall to Perth (590 miles) in the C-Zero in “one day” (well it was from 10am to 4am of the following day so well within 24 hours). This required a travelling speed of no more than an indicated 60 mph (58mph actual speed), slip streaming lorries and following the dead slow ones up the hills, e.g. through the Lake District.

Oddly although the car is pretty hopeless on motorways (no cruise control, susceptible to side winds and a very heavy accelerator pedal when pressing it down enough to maintain speed up hill) it did not seem as tiring as it sounds, probably because of the frequent enforced breaks, i.e. 15 minutes to charge after every 50 minutes of driving, plus every charger worked (C-Zero uses CHAdeMO and has battery cooling using the air conditioning).

However I don’t intend to do that kind of mileage again, normally I would stop overnight half way.

Anyway a test drive of the Leaf with 62kWh battery today has convinced me that it could definitely meet all my needs very nicely.
 

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2018 Nissan Leaf 40kWh Tekna - love it
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I had a Leaf 40. The charging speed is poor. Range is also poor. It's particularly bad in winter, skimming 100 miles. I've had it slow on the second rapid a bit as well. Also the battery packs can warp which put me right off.

For the bang/buck/range you can't beat a Zoe 40. There are more battery owned now too. R110 has a better heater. There are daft deals on the new ZE50 until the end of June. DSG Morecombe are worth asking to see whether they still have any.
Range, yes, but almost everything else, no. I would not like to drive it for long at motorway speeds.
 

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Range, yes, but almost everything else, no. I would not like to drive it for long at motorway speeds.

I never found it a problem and I'm quite fussy. It was more comfortable than the leaf as it actually has steering wheel reach and a foot rest. The leaf didn't. That was really uncomfortable. It just depends on which car you fit better.
 
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