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Relatively for our generation, maybe, but then we've had it easy. No World Wars or pandemics for us. We're just not at the point where everyone's a believer. We'll get there. Might not be bloodless, though.
 
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Energy is, at least, generatable anywhere on Earth where the wind blows or the sun shines. Water, on the other hand, is a different kettle of fish.
 

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We may be having a small impact on a frightening statistic....7% compound growth.
What it means is every 10 years since oil was first dug out of the ground in the era of industrialisation we have burned more of it than in ALL the years of previous production put together!
I am hoping this is about to stop.
If not, when 3 ton Range Rover Sports and German Panzer wagons have burned all the Oxygen and we have asphyxiated it will be good to know that our cars could have still run without us and theirs wouldn't have.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
We may be having a small impact on a frightening statistic....7% compound growth.
What it means is every 10 years since oil was first dug out of the ground in the era of industrialisation we have burned more of it than in ALL the years of previous production put together!
I am hoping this is about to stop.
If not, when 3 ton Range Rover Sports and German Panzer wagons have burned all the Oxygen and we have asphyxiated it will be good to know that our cars could have still run without us and theirs won't.
Is this supposed to offer hope?! :p
 

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No. We're to clever to perish as a species. Maybe a cull is over due though. The world can support 9 billion people as long as the greedy feckers at the top are told you can't have everything you want. That's where capitalism fails. The rich often aren't doing anything of useful value to society and just consume. I came to that conclusion as my mrs watches the real wives of wherever and i wanted to send coordinates to the MOD of where ISIS (uk) are hiding.
 

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Please, because I just seem to keep hearing things getting worse and worse on a national and global scale. We're doomed aren't we? Aren't we? Stupid humans. :(
I can't convince you we will survive long term because we won't. We are on a path which will make the environment of this world hostile to us, we will then have wars, and continue to make it worse. The planet will be fine, and some unexpected species will flourish, adapt and live on, but our societies will collapse and our "humanity" will be lost. I see two end options, we return to a nomadic hunter gatherer lifestyle surviving where we can, or a small elite commit mass genocide so they can live in relative comfort with what's left of our world.
 

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I can't convince you we will survive long term because we won't. We are on a path which will make the environment of this world hostile to us, we will then have wars, and continue to make it worse. The planet will be fine, and some unexpected species will flourish, adapt and live on, but our societies will collapse and our "humanity" will be lost. I see two end options, we return to a nomadic hunter gatherer lifestyle surviving where we can, or a small elite commit mass genocide so they can live in relative comfort with what's left of our world.
Agreed as long as the worlds political leaders continue to be entertained (lobbied) by the highest bidders, main culprits oil and motor industry, who are then allowed to conspire to successfully market the false dream that a large 4x4 is a must have family accessory to get to view what is left of the remotest bits of the shrinking natural world from the school run.
 

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The rich often aren't doing anything of useful value to society and just consume
Not true really, if the "rich" did consume the wealth gap wouldn't be so wide. What happens really is wealth accumulates to such a degree there is too much to actually spend, wealth begets wealth etc etc.

The last time there was such a wealth divide it precipitated the French Revolution, there is only so much more political can kicking we can do before we have to face facts or alternatively a disorderly reset happens.

Like anything else the process is slow, there are those that cotton on quick and those that done. The bottom line is nearly all our problems as a civilisation stem from two things a) our economics is based on infinite consumption b) the "superpowers" have economies based on military dominance and the only result of such economies is war mongering.

I would also add that we are too clever to perish at something else hands, but we are by far clever enough to perish at our own.

Sorry I was trying to be up beat - failed miserably.
 

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or a small elite commit mass genocide so they can live in relative comfort with what's left of our world.
Have you been watching Kingsman?

It's true though. The second law of thermodynamics will limit how long our consumerist democracy system of government can continue. Unfortunately I think the masses are too busy watching I'm a Celebrity and aspiring to their holidays in the Caribbean to rise up. It's boiling frog syndrome.

The only hope is the AIs will be benign and have a better sense of self preservation.




And if that's too heavy... It's counterpart.



I think the symbolism is obvious.
 

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Have you been watching Kingsman?

It's true though. The second law of thermodynamics will limit how long our consumerist democracy system of government can continue. Unfortunately I think the masses are too busy watching I'm a Celebrity and aspiring to their holidays in the Caribbean to rise up. It's boiling frog syndrome.

The only hope is the AIs will be benign and have a better sense of self preservation.
Not heard of Kingsman before but sounds about right, although I guess I'd say my source is more like Dr Strangelove, different existential threat but same disgusting outcome.
 

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Relatively for our generation, maybe, but then we've had it easy. No World Wars or pandemics for us.
Yet... there seems to be a growing number of parallels with the past. i.e. drug-resistant superbugs. And how far can things go in the east before we sleepwalk into another World War?

As a species, we seem to take a short term view on pretty much everything we do, with little in the way of long term planning or ambition. It'll take something really huge to change that, and if climate change isn't big enough, then I am not sure what is.
 

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Unless you look at the Chinese.
And the only thing you need to do is totally remove individual freedom and make people live their lives within rigidly defined parameters, 400m Middle class people or not.

Sounds like a decent plan, but then I'd be one of the rule makers rather than receivers, so it might be best to ignore me...
 

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Please, because I just seem to keep hearing things getting worse and worse on a national and global scale. We're doomed aren't we? Aren't we? Stupid humans. :(
In the long long history of evolution we see that the end result for any species is extinction at some point so on that basis, yes we are.

Few species however are the authors of their own demise and even fewer are the authors of their own demise with the knowledge that they are.

On the bright side, even if humans do not at some point extinct themselves on the balance of probability one day the planet will collide with a suitably large comet which will do the job for us.

In the meantime however the sun might just give up the ghost and we all die a cold miserable death.

Have a nice day
 

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Please, because I just seem to keep hearing things getting worse and worse on a national and global scale. We're doomed aren't we? Aren't we? Stupid humans. :(
Yup. Doomed.

Evidence for this comes from SETI. If technological civilisations lasted more than a few hundred years then we should be detecting zillions of ancient civilisations across the galaxy. We don't, because organised beings never get organised enough not to go into self-destruct mode.

This is why all this 'green' stuff is, ultimately, a waste of time. We can halve, quarter, decimate our consumption rates of materials and energy, but all it is doing is stretching out the inevitable for a few more generations. Live it up, guys, not long left.
 
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