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Discussion Starter #1
Hi, new to this community but interested to hear your thoughts on this https://whats-new-uk.blog/2020/08/05/project-ev-launches/.

It's an opportunity for you to ensure the chargers in your area or that you have used recently are correctly located for the next guy to come along. It's not just another app!

This dataset is used but many of the automotive OEMs as part of their in car navigation set up. Your efforts will contribute in a real way to improving the experience of other EV drivers...and you can win some cool stuff to boot.

As i say open to thoughts and suggestions...please be friendly we're genuinely trying to make the EV experience better and encourage further EV uptake.

Alec
 

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The problem isn't where we'd like to put chargers, the problem is land access rights and adequate power.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
The problem isn't where we'd like to put chargers, the problem is land access rights and adequate power.
It's more about ensuring that the charger is correctly located on the map when compared to reality, so that when you navigate to it you arrive at the correct location not 500m down the road or at a charger no longer in operation. Sometimes the coordinates entered by the installer for the CPO (charge point operator) can be nearly a km out!
 

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I think it would fairer if people were rewarded per location irrespective of the number of locations they help with.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I think it's hoped a little bit of competition would spur people on to check as many as possible however, the prizes are really a side note. They are meant to attract people who might not necessarily be EV drivers and who need a little more motivation. We're hoping EV drivers will be motivated enough to want to ensure the chargers in their areas of interest are present and correct. That said, EV drivers will have a natural headstart on the prizes as they are already motivated!
 

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Trouble is, EV drivers are already doing much of this sort of thing with ZapMap, Plugshare and OpenChargeMap etc. Perhaps you could all get together so we aren’t called upon to do the leg work over and over.
 

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Are you after the position of chargers - these are DC Rapids, or all units you can use, Rapids and slow and fast AC posts?

we have local 7kW and 3kW AC posts, one of which is in a council carpark not open to the public during the day, another situated in a shared parking bay but at the town end so always iced in the day and most evenings as everyone parks at the town end... Then there is the post that still has a 3 pin plug - bring your granny lead.

All are present and correct on zap map as are the 3 rapid chargers.
Zap map is probably the way as it often gives upto date info, unlike car sat-navs, mine is @6 years out of date ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Are you after the position of chargers - these are DC Rapids, or all units you can use, Rapids and slow and fast AC posts?.

All are present and correct on zap map as are the 3 rapid chargers.
Zap map is probably the way as it often gives upto date info, unlike car sat-navs, mine is @6 years out of date ;)
Yes we're after the position of all public chargers. Zap map is indeed a good source, again updated by a community of users such as yourself. But it is an app not able to be integrated with a new vehicles in-dash system. Car-sat navs is exactly the market we are in and looking to improve upon...how often you update them of course us up to you ;)
 

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In the case of the ampera one it was abandoned in 2013 by vauxhall with no updates. Much as i expect any car manf to do. Others charge for updates and you have to book it in for the updates at a garage.
I'm sorry but relying on maker's to update software for the life of a car is a forlorn hope if the past is anything to go by, that is apart from Tesla. You better off with a mobile
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I'm sorry but relying on maker's to update software for the life of a car is a forlorn hope if the past is anything to go by, that is apart from Tesla. You better off with a mobile
Vehicle manufacturers are all moving towards OTA updates now, the days of sending out DVDs and SD cards are slowly coming to an end but you raise a good point.

What a mobile cannot do in the long term is properly integrate with your cars systems to, for example, give an accurate idea of the range remaining in your battery based on the electrical usage of your vehicle.
 

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Yes we're after the position of all public chargers. Zap map is indeed a good source, again updated by a community of users such as yourself. But it is an app not able to be integrated with a new vehicles in-dash system. Car-sat navs is exactly the market we are in and looking to improve upon...how often you update them of course us up to you ;)
Then you may want to review your business model because the cost of in-car sat nav updates can equal or exceed adding a mobile phone and linking it to an open-source app like Zap-Map that has much more current and validated (user experience reports) information for EV drivers.

One way ahead would be to talk to Zap-Map and/or Plugshare about developing an open API to integrate EV data as an additional layer to the Sat-Nav.

System integration is a better route than duplication of data sources and all the problems of accuracy that brings.

More than range calculations an EV driver would like to know if the charger they are driving towards is free or occupied right now and if occupied a prediction of when it is likely to become free based on the car connected battery capacity and state of charge. Being able to book a charger from a few miles/ minutes away would be the icing on the cake.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
The data that underlies all EV aggregator apps comes from the same source, the charge point operators. The most successful apps are able to utilise communities to 'clean' that data and make it trustworthy, this is what we are hoping to do.

The data is still owned by the CPOs however and they have the final say on who licenses that data to the OEMs....not the aggregators.

I fully agree, system integration is a better route. Mobile phones do not integrate with a vehicles systems though, beyond mirroring displays. As previously stated, there are advantages to using data that comes from a vehicles head unit rather than a mobile device.
 

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Yes we're after the position of all public chargers. Zap map is indeed a good source, again updated by a community of users such as yourself. But it is an app not able to be integrated with a new vehicles in-dash system. Car-sat navs is exactly the market we are in and looking to improve upon...how often you update them of course us up to you ;)
Actually, Zap Map can now be accessed by Android Auto.
Zap-Map launches hands-free voice app on Google Assistant - Zap-Map
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Again, it's not integrated with the cars systems its simply mirrored to the display and so still cannot properly reflect the performance of the vehicle. Whether you prefer a mobile device or a built-in set up is not really the issue we're looking to address however.
If you accept there will necessarily be competition in all markets given different players bring different value then there will continue to be a number of available sources for the data which will need to be maintained. HERE maps are automotive grade, trusted by the industry for over 30 years and fully supporting the ADAS features that now come as standard for many new cars. Indeed we are working closely with the industry to create the next generation of HD maps that will be built and maintained by the cars themselves. That then puts the vehicle owner in a positon to make money from licensing out the data they collect in the background every time they take the car out for a spin.
https://whats-new-uk.blog/2020/08/05/project-ev-launches/.
 

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I simply don't believe any car company will not pass up the opportunity to charge a fortune for a locked in sat-nav update once any warranty (1-3 years?) has passed. never mind if it can read the battery state or not.

If a model has few sales then any updates I expect to be dropped like a hot brick.

They have been doing this for years and I can not see them changing.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Trouble is, EV drivers are already doing much of this sort of thing with ZapMap, Plugshare and OpenChargeMap etc. Perhaps you could all get together so we aren’t called upon to do the leg work over and over.
Apologies Bill i missed this comment in the thread. I agree, it's not ideal however market fragmentation will always exist in a capitalist economy and there are multiple commercial reasons why we can't all get together despite us having pursued all those avenues.
You can make the effort to update the platform you use regularly and risk that platform going the way of Betamax and your effort being wasted in the long term or you can endeavour to update them all knowing that you have likely made a change that be beneficial to the whole EV community. One of the problems associated with being an early adopter i'm afraid.

https://whats-new-uk.blog/2020/08/05/project-ev-launches/.
 
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