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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Long and rambling pointless post warning. Slow work day, I was bored.

There's been some discussion on here about how EVs are "more expensive" than an ICE car, so as an exercise I did a comparison on the VW configurator. A few assumptions made - You pay RRP list price for both vehicles, insurance is about the same, you pay no servicing. I tried to use cars that are as like-for-like as possible.

The closest new Golf performance-wise and spec-wise (on paper) is the GTD. It comes with a lot of the standard equipment in an ID.3 (like Matrix lights, keyless entry etc, ambient lighting, ACC), so I started with that as a base. If you run through the options & add everything you can to match the ID.3 Family spec, the GTD comes out at £35,085. From a quick look into a Golf 8 while I was in the garage recently, the interior is a bit more plush than the ID.3 but I don't think it's much better and is a subjective matter anyway. The Golf also comes with alloys & 6 speakers. To match the Family, I specced - Panoramic roof, Winter pack with 3-zone AC (there is no option for 2), Rear view camera, pro-active passenger protection, side airbags.

The ID.3 Family Pro Performance is £37,650 with no options.

So in short, for a Golf to approximately match an ID.3 Family Pro Performance on paper, the Golf is around £2,500 lower RRP. Personally, I think the "performance" of the ID.3 is far better in real world driving than a diesel DSG, but that's a different discussion.

Let's assume an 8,000 mile per year average (we all know quoted efficiency figures are nonsense but suspend disbelief for now):
Using quoted efficiency of the GTD of 53.6 mpg 8,000 miles of diesel at today's prices is around £847. GTD car tax is £150.
Taking the quoted efficiency of the ID.3 of 156.93 Wh/km (3.96 mi/kWh) and electricity at 14.6p/kWh which seems to be about the national fixed rate average right now, 8,000 miles would cost £295.

Extrapolate fuel running costs including VED over 3 years of 8,000 miles per year, the GTD comes out at £2,991 the ID.3 at £885

Charging the ID.3 on a cheaper overnight tariff, say Go Faster 5 hour at 5.5p brings the ID.3 down to £333 over 3 years/24k miles (I was quite surprised by this tbh).


In summary of this probably-flawed scenario, the total cost of ownership over 3 years and 24,000 miles:
ID.3 Family Pro Performance - £38,535 (or £37,983 if you only charge at lower rates)
Golf 8 GTD with options to approximately match the ID.3 - £38,076 (you get alloys, 6 speakers and subjectively "better" interior)


Feel free to poke holes in my scenario or point out anything I may have missed.
 

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Long and rambling pointless post warning. Slow work day, I was bored.

There's been some discussion on here about how EVs are "more expensive" than an ICE car, so as an exercise I did a comparison on the VW configurator. A few assumptions made - You pay RRP list price for both vehicles, insurance is about the same, you pay no servicing. I tried to use cars that are as like-for-like as possible.

The closest new Golf performance-wise and spec-wise (on paper) is the GTD. It comes with a lot of the standard equipment in an ID.3 (like Matrix lights, keyless entry etc, ambient lighting, ACC), so I started with that as a base. If you run through the options & add everything you can to match the ID.3 Family spec, the GTD comes out at £35,085. From a quick look into a Golf 8 while I was in the garage recently, the interior is a bit more plush than the ID.3 but I don't think it's much better and is a subjective matter anyway. The Golf also comes with alloys & 6 speakers. To match the Family, I specced - Panoramic roof, Winter pack with 3-zone AC (there is no option for 2), Rear view camera, pro-active passenger protection, side airbags.

The ID.3 Family Pro Performance is £37,650 with no options.

So in short, for a Golf to approximately match an ID.3 Family Pro Performance on paper, the Golf is around £2,500 lower RRP. Personally, I think the "performance" of the ID.3 is far better in real world driving than a diesel DSG, but that's a different discussion.

Let's assume an 8,000 mile per year average (we all know quoted efficiency figures are nonsense but suspend disbelief for now):
Using quoted efficiency of the GTD of 53.6 mpg 8,000 miles of diesel at today's prices is around £847. GTD car tax is £150.
Taking the quoted efficiency of the ID.3 of 156.93 Wh/km (3.96 mi/kWh) and electricity at 14.6p/kWh which seems to be about the national fixed rate average right now, 8,000 miles would cost £295.

Extrapolate fuel running costs including VED over 3 years of 8,000 miles per year, the GTD comes out at £2,991 the ID.3 at £885

Charging the ID.3 on a cheaper overnight tariff, say Go Faster 5 hour at 5.5p brings the ID.3 down to £333 over 3 years/24k miles (I was quite surprised by this tbh).


In summary of this probably-flawed scenario, the total cost of ownership over 3 years and 24,000 miles:
ID.3 Family Pro Performance - £38,535 (or £37,983 if you only charge at lower rates)
Golf 8 GTD with options to approximately match the ID.3 - £38,076 (you get alloys, 6 speakers and subjectively "better" interior)


Feel free to poke holes in my scenario or point out anything I may have missed.
Can't poke too many holes ;), but discounts would play a huge part; Carwow suggest average of £1700 for an ID.3, £2500 for a GTD.

..of course pre-reg would make a big difference too - I paid less than £30k for a Family with no options as a pre-reg, but those deals may well have gone now.
 

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Hole poke: Assuming RRP paid for both is a big assumption. A fairer comparison would be to assume Drive the Deal price for both and p/x value of 110% of VWs finance's stated GFV for both cars.

The discounted price of a Life pro plus slipping under the £35k threshold for grant will give a meaningful discount vs any of the other ID3 trims to compare favourably with the GTD' likely 16% off list.
 

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Long and rambling pointless post warning. Slow work day, I was bored.

There's been some discussion on here about how EVs are "more expensive" than an ICE car, so as an exercise I did a comparison on the VW configurator. A few assumptions made - You pay RRP list price for both vehicles, insurance is about the same, you pay no servicing. I tried to use cars that are as like-for-like as possible.

The closest new Golf performance-wise and spec-wise (on paper) is the GTD. It comes with a lot of the standard equipment in an ID.3 (like Matrix lights, keyless entry etc, ambient lighting, ACC), so I started with that as a base. If you run through the options & add everything you can to match the ID.3 Family spec, the GTD comes out at £35,085. From a quick look into a Golf 8 while I was in the garage recently, the interior is a bit more plush than the ID.3 but I don't think it's much better and is a subjective matter anyway. The Golf also comes with alloys & 6 speakers. To match the Family, I specced - Panoramic roof, Winter pack with 3-zone AC (there is no option for 2), Rear view camera, pro-active passenger protection, side airbags.

The ID.3 Family Pro Performance is £37,650 with no options.

So in short, for a Golf to approximately match an ID.3 Family Pro Performance on paper, the Golf is around £2,500 lower RRP. Personally, I think the "performance" of the ID.3 is far better in real world driving than a diesel DSG, but that's a different discussion.

Let's assume an 8,000 mile per year average (we all know quoted efficiency figures are nonsense but suspend disbelief for now):
Using quoted efficiency of the GTD of 53.6 mpg 8,000 miles of diesel at today's prices is around £847. GTD car tax is £150.
Taking the quoted efficiency of the ID.3 of 156.93 Wh/km (3.96 mi/kWh) and electricity at 14.6p/kWh which seems to be about the national fixed rate average right now, 8,000 miles would cost £295.

Extrapolate fuel running costs including VED over 3 years of 8,000 miles per year, the GTD comes out at £2,991 the ID.3 at £885

Charging the ID.3 on a cheaper overnight tariff, say Go Faster 5 hour at 5.5p brings the ID.3 down to £333 over 3 years/24k miles (I was quite surprised by this tbh).


In summary of this probably-flawed scenario, the total cost of ownership over 3 years and 24,000 miles:
ID.3 Family Pro Performance - £38,535 (or £37,983 if you only charge at lower rates)
Golf 8 GTD with options to approximately match the ID.3 - £38,076 (you get alloys, 6 speakers and subjectively "better" interior)


Feel free to poke holes in my scenario or point out anything I may have missed.
And, of course, it only gets better if you intend to keep for longer than 3 years as I do!

Though, slight hole poke - if you do a lot of charging on rapid chargers, the EV looks a bit less favourable.

Of course, that slight hole poke means that if comparing the costs of an ID.3 to another EV, you really do have to pay attention to the range of the other EV. If you can do most of your long journeys within the range of the ID.3 but you can't within the range of the competitor EV you're comparing against, then the costs of running that competitor EV will be higher.
 

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Though, slight hole poke - if you do a lot of charging on rapid chargers, the EV looks a bit less favourable.
That reminded me to check what I was spending on rapid chargers when I was doing the same journeys I am now, but in the e-Golf.

Looking at my Instavolt App I was averaging £75 a month on rapid charging, I’ve hardly done any since getting the ID.3, so that’s been a worthwhile saving.

Yeah, ok, I spent another £13k ish to save it, but let’s not look into this too deeply shall we! 😂
 

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The biggest cost of running any car is depreciation and at the moment the EV is way way less than a diesel and can only get worse.

To ignore the cost of servicing is artificial.

Is there an extra tax when buying a FF car?
 

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What is a gtd going to be worth in 3 years time?
Much less than the ID3 I expect, if the experience of trade in on the eGolf is anything to go by.

Who would want you drive a dsg diesel? Way to much gearbox lag after driving an EV for more than a few weeks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
This was an exercise for myself to figure out if EVs really are that much more expensive than an ICE equivalent. I think it's fairly clear that the like-for-like costs are a lot closer than some people seem to think. I guess a lot of the perception of EVs being so much more expensive is that you get a lot more bells & whistles on most EVs than you would usually get on an ICE car unless you go for the higher spec models. This gives the artificial appearance that they are very costly.

Hole poke: Assuming RRP paid for both is a big assumption. A fairer comparison would be to assume Drive the Deal price for both and p/x value of 110% of VWs finance's stated GFV for both cars.

The discounted price of a Life pro plus slipping under the £35k threshold for grant will give a meaningful discount vs any of the other ID3 trims to compare favourably with the GTD' likely 16% off list.
There are significant deals to be had on both sides of this fence, depending on lots of factors. Time of the month, month of the year, VW's emissions targets, how you pay, what you PX.

The biggest cost of running any car is depreciation and at the moment the EV is way way less than a diesel and can only get worse.

To ignore the cost of servicing is artificial.

Is there an extra tax when buying a FF car?
FF car?

Cost of servicing sways this more in favour of the EV of course. Off the top of my head, I think servicing is at least double for an ICE. I don't have much recent experience, I haven't had a car serviced for over 4 years, I've sold my cars before they needed one! :p It's handy that new cars need pretty much zero spend on maintenance in the first few years.

Depreciation is a very big factor over the medium to longer term, of course. Another factor to bring in & almost certainly in favour of the EV.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Who would want you drive a dsg diesel? Way to much gearbox lag after driving an EV for more than a few weeks.
I didn't want to get back in my Octavia vRS after a test drive of the e-Golf, let alone after a few weeks of driving the ID.3... I will never go back to an ICE car.
 

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I guess a lot of the perception of EVs being so much more expensive is that you get a lot more bells & whistles on most EVs than you would usually get on an ICE car unless you go for the higher spec models. This gives the artificial appearance that they are very costly.
This is true, and whilst that should mean there is a place for a basic car without the bells and whistles to match the entry level best selling fossil fuel (FF?) cars, that would no doubt be met with criticism that it’s ‘poverty spec’ etc etc.

Sometimes it’s heads you lose, tails you don’t win, or something!
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Though, slight hole poke - if you do a lot of charging on rapid chargers, the EV looks a bit less favourable.
Again using official efficiency figures, you could charge your EV at 41.9p/kWh to average the same fuel cost as the Golf.
 

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A lot of cars are not bought outright and they are paid for monthly.

So for me, I used to have a Volvo that was about £15/month more to lease. I would do about 500 miles a week and it just fell within the £40k+ VED premium which my ID3 misses by a few hundred quid. On paper they were similarly priced cars within about £2k but that's irrelevant when you pcp a car. The monthly cost is the main number you care about, not what the RRP is. Depreciation is the biggest factor in PCP monthlies which is contributed to with things like mileage and precieved brand desirability.

So anyway, two similar rrp cars. One cost about £15 a month more to pcp than the other. The story however is how much it costs to run that car per month as we are paying for it monthly and this is where the ID3 (or comparable EVs) really shine. The Volvo would easily drink £250/month in motion potion, it would cost the equivalent in £40/month in service costs, cost the equivalent of £35 in insurance and road tax was about the equivalent of another £40/month. That made running the Volvo about £780/800 per month all in.

The ID3 on the other hand just sneaks under the £40k tax, is forecast to be something like £15/month (£180 a year according to the dealer, but they confess they don't really know), consumes about £60/month in electricity for the same mileage, costs about £25 in insurance and obviously has zero VED. This means that I can run the car for about £480/500 per month.

And the only difference? The Volvo had more interior space for lugging crap around and a much nicer cockpit, in fact I'd say one of the nicest on the market bar none.

~£300/month savings and no dirty and oily diesel pumps to use? Yes please!

Comparing rrp is pointless, it's the cost to run monthly/annually/etc that really matters. What you should be comparing is one £800/month (or whatever you unit of time is) all in car with another that also costs the same.

Not one that is £800 against one that is £500.
 

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...it just fell within the £40k+ VED premium which my ID3 misses by a few hundred quid.

The ID3 on the other hand just sneaks under the £40k tax.
EVs registered after 6th April 2020 no longer have to suffer the "Luxury" VED as per GOV.UK Vehicle tax rates

Vehicles with a list price of more than £40,000
You have to pay an extra £325 a year if you have a car or motorhome with a ‘list price’ (the published price before any discounts) of more than £40,000. You do not have to pay this if you have a zero emission vehicle.
...which is something that Volkswagen hadn't actually worked out when I was purchasing my Max, and were still flagging additional changes. Just to make things even more confusing either Volkwagen's systems or DVLA do "charge" the additional rates at the princely sum of £0.
 

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What is a gtd going to be worth in 3 years time?
Much less than the ID3 I expect, if the experience of trade in on the eGolf is anything to go by.
Can you expand on your egolf trade in experience a bit please? I might be tempted to swap mine for something else!
 

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I didn't trade mine in but several people posted that they got very good prices for their e-Golfs when they bought an ID3.
Yes, I was one of them.

19 months and nearly 40k miles cost me the equivalent of £203 a month, I’d have struggled to have leased one for that I think, with that mileage.
 

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Very slight hole poke, but no one only doing 8000 miles per year would be buying a diesel car would they? They used to say that you had to be doing 15,000 per year before it made sense over a petrol engine. I don’t know if there is still that differential in price between a GTD and a GTI based just on the engine.
 
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