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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
An interesting suggestion that the EU are looking to ban the sale of PHEVs by 2025, on the basis that lugging an ICE around isn't very environmental.

Once 'green' plug-in hybrid cars suddenly look like dinosaurs in Europe (msn.com)

Which will naturally start a lot of complaining.

I hope it does take effect if not by 2025 then by 2030, as it's going to be the only way to get people to stop using cars for shorter, unnecessary journeys.

Edit: On a related issue for non plug-ins, it would be nice if they could also do something to stop the "self-charging myth".
 

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I think the rate of EV growth now means they will be slightly irrelevant by 2025. We will have 500m range EVs by then, so what is the point in a PHEV.
 

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An interesting suggestion that the EU are looking to ban the sale of PHEVs by 2025, on the basis that lugging an ICE around isn't very environmental.

Once 'green' plug-in hybrid cars suddenly look like dinosaurs in Europe (msn.com)

Which will naturally start a lot of complaining.

I hope it does take effect if not by 2025 then by 2030, as it's going to be the only way to get people to stop using cars for shorter, unnecessary journeys. As well as stopping the "self-charging myth".

I'd disagree with that dragging a ICE round isnt very enviromentally friendly, I've done thousands of miles on electric and I'll guarantee that my CO2 emissions from running the REX are less than any BEV that has run out of electric and had to be recovered.
 

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You what?

Extra purchase cost.
Extra running cost
Extra maintenance cost
Less internal space
Bigger chance of something going wrong
Higher depreciation
 

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Why do these anti-phev topics always always ignore the fact that they make brilliant second-hand purchases - they can allow a quality car, that can act as an EV for 90% of it's life if used properly, be afforded by those of us that can't afford the mythical 500 mile EV, and don't want to buy a crappy 70 mile zoe or leaf ?
 

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Why do these anti-phev topics always always ignore the fact that they make brilliant second-hand purchases - they can allow a quality car, that can act as an EV for 90% of it's life if used properly, be afforded by those of us that can't afford the mythical 500 mile EV, and don't want to buy a crappy 70 mile zoe or leaf ?
Because in any "anti something" debate, it helps to ignore certain facts.
 

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As well as stopping the "self-charging myth".
Those aren't PHEVs.

As to banning hybrids 5 years earlier than pure ICE ... what drugs are you on? :oops:
"You either have to buy a more polluting car or suffer with the rubbish charging network." :unsure:

I never cease to be amazed by the crackpot ideas that get thrown up around EVs. It really is almost religious.
 

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Zoe Devotee
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I think the rate of EV growth now means they will be slightly irrelevant by 2025. We will have 500m range EVs by then, so what is the point in a PHEV.
Fanciful thinking that, We barely have any genuine affordable 200+ mile EVs that can tow, none even. What makes you think there is going to be a seismic shift in the next 4 years? PHEVs will be around for years to come, but they'll evolve a lot I wager, we will see increased EV range from them but the combustible engine will be here to stay for at least the next decade if not longer. I actually considered the MG HS Phev, but max 30mile EV range put me off, once you get 100mile EV range PHEVS I can see them selling in big numbers again. 100mile range gives the typical owner 99% of their daily commutes and the ICE means they'll not have to consider which flakey network to take a gamble on the way to holiday destinations.
 

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You can't take the silencer off an EV and rev it, can you?

I do wonder when the boy racers will realise that the performance cars are the ones that make least noise.
They'll soon have big waterproof speakers under the bonnet wired up to a 200w amp and smartphone with a selection of supercar exhaust sounds.
Actually, I might do that to my Leaf. Aston Martin or maybe my old Ducati or Alfa Brera exhaust sounds.
Wouldn't be to difficult for someone to write an app that took the speed from the obd port and even the accelerator pedal position for those 'blipping the throttle' sounds.
 

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Zoe Devotee
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They'll soon have big waterproof speakers under the bonnet wired up to a 200w amp and smartphone with a selection of supercar exhaust sounds.
I think you've just designed the BMW i9 there.

Saw one recently in St Andrews, pretending to be a race car, my impressionably 9 year old thought it sounded "so cool" until I said "well, son, its actually just a fake system playing through a speaker, its really only got a 3 cylinder engine like your mums B-Max!"
 
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Fanciful thinking that, We barely have any genuine affordable 200+ mile EVs that can tow, none even. What makes you think there is going to be a seismic shift in the next 4 years? PHEVs will be around for years to come, but they'll evolve a lot I wager, we will see increased EV range from them but the combustible engine will be here to stay for at least the next decade if not longer. I actually considered the MG HS Phev, but max 30mile EV range put me off, once you get 100mile EV range PHEVS I can see them selling in big numbers again. 100mile range gives the typical owner 99% of their daily commutes and the ICE means they'll not have to consider which flakey network to take a gamble on the way to holiday destinations.
If a PHEV could do 100 miles on electric-only power, it would be eligible for the PICG. (The threshold is 70 miles electric range & <50g/km emissions).
 

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what was the problem with the i3 rex approach? Is it not possible to generate enough to drive the car fully like that? Seems like although you're still 'lugging' an engine around, it could be smaller and the drivetrain etc owuld be simpler if electric only
 

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what was the problem with the i3 rex approach?
It used an engine that had lots of costly problems and as it was "different" practically even a oil change needed a BMW dealer. Then BMW did not wish to spend the money redesigning the engine to keep to the next set of emissions regs.

But you can now buy a Fort Transit van done in the same way.
 

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Why do these anti-phev topics always always ignore the fact that they make brilliant second-hand purchases - they can allow a quality car, that can act as an EV for 90% of it's life if used properly, be afforded by those of us that can't afford the mythical 500 mile EV, and don't want to buy a crappy 70 mile zoe or leaf ?
I'd rather see 1000 phevs on the road than a 1000 diesels, a lot of phevs would be perfect for the school run where a lot of emissions come from, most of the cars dont even get up to operating temperature, they would be safer too in the winter with remote climate control.
 

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If a PHEV could do 100 miles on electric-only power, it would be eligible for the PICG. (The threshold is 70 miles electric range & <50g/km emissions).
This is the issue, most Phevs have minimal real world range like 15-30 miles. If the balance between the EV and the petrol was better they'd be a better a solution.
I suspect however building a car with a 25 kWh battery and a petrol engine and a heat pump and space for passengers with a weight under 2 tons is probably both difficult and more expensive than a 40 or 50 kWh Bev.
 
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