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I'm not crazy, the attack has begun.
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Discussion Starter #1
Where are all the libertarians who should be objecting to the fascists that are clamping down on individuals?

The point I am making is that people often wonder why, in societies that are not 'free' and which clamp down on, so-called, freedom of expression, there are no people who stand up to draconian laws and regulations?

The answer, and reason, is that once there is a majority mob that are willing to fall in behind any unreasonable ruling Government, because they are 'persuaded' that it'd be dangerous to do anything else, they are then happy to see police and any level of unreasonable force crack down on anyone that steps out of line, and screw any sort of democratic values, like, making up your own mind about things and raising objections.

We have just become a fascist state. Long live the fascists.
 

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The oppression of today comes from social collective withholding toilet paper and other essentials. I am informed this started with social media advertising, possibly of Russian origin, that created fear and sparked contagious mass stockpiling among consumers.

Like startled sheep, the UK populace quickly abandoned all notions of "keep calm and carry on".
 

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I'm not crazy, the attack has begun.
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Discussion Starter #5
I am informed this started with social media advertising, possibly of Russian origin, that created fear and sparked contagious mass stockpiling among consumers.
Sounds like typical fascist propaganda, blaming some other country for your own disasters, doesn't it?
 

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Sounds like typical fascist propaganda, blaming some other country for your own disasters, doesn't it?
Don't speak about the EU like that. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Donald - civil libertarian or anarchist? :rolleyes::unsure:
Libertarian, most definitely. Why has the Government legitimised depriving healthy people of their liberty?

This is no different to any other totalitarian state that makes certain claims about the consequences of defying their will. So long as enough people accept it and are paranoid enough to believe it, then those objecting will be stifled.

My point is that if you ever wonder why the people of, for example North Korea do not rise up then you are experiencing that now; a population so paranoid about the external risks and threats to itself that they think their Government is right, even though zero evidence to back up such paranoia is offered.
 

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I'm not crazy, the attack has begun.
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Discussion Starter #11
I have to wonder if you’re trying to wind people up, or you’re just a selfish git high on cheap schnapps?
No, I am dead serious, this is how one's natural liberties are eroded.

If we were so serious about 'medical advice' or other shyte like that, then why not ban alcohol which kills nigh on 100,000 a year. Why don't we close pubs for that reason?

People have a right of choice, we do not deny fat people NHS care, and few would argue that a moderately overweight person overloads the NHS. For sure, drunks overload it every Saturday night.

This is a flat out destruction of democratic choice to do what one wants in public. It is an outrage. If people want to stay at home, fine, it's a free country. .... errr ...no, it isn't right now, it is not a free country, you HAVE to stay at home.
 

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Actually, I agree with Donald. There's a whole raft of things the Government can now do, in theory for the next 2 years. I think in the next 2-3 weeks we'll have a far more restrictive lockdown situation. The main problem they've got, is that unlike places such as Spain, the UK has far fewer police to actually enforce things such as fining people who have left their home.

Of course the Government have now got the power to re-designate traffic wardens (parking enforcement officers) to do other jobs, so watch out if they start giving them tasers...………...
 

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So how does this compare to compulsory wearing of seat-belts in the front of cars and helmets on most motorcycles? Those have been law for a long time but I must have missed the thread with you complaining about them. In those cases the perpetrators may overload the NHS helping to deny its limited resources from others, but they are unlikely to directly cause illness to many others.
 

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No, I am dead serious, this is how one's natural liberties are eroded.
Because it’s not all about you (despite you being in the high risk category).

Your liberties are being infringed to protect the weaker members of our society.

Or do you want to see the bodies pile up at the morgues?

Now grow up and stop being selfish
 

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I'm not crazy, the attack has begun.
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Discussion Starter #17
Well, like I say, I am evidencing how a population becomes so enamoured of the convictions of its Government that it is not only prepared to put up with fascism, it is prepared to berate others over their objections.

I do not see any evidence to justify this level of infringement of civil liberties.

The problem is that we are distanced from death in our modern society so it seems to come as quite a shock when the death rate doubles for a few months, and people start noticing. This is no reason for the level of infringement of human rights, and to destroy an economy, but the lingering finger of death, once noticed, seems to encourage people to overlook the infringements of civil liberty that the mob is baying for.

I do not agree that the current response is proportionate, and I have a free right to that opinion. My rights should not be imposed upon just because others don't agree with me. If people don't want to mix and socialise with me, they can stay at home.
 

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I do not agree that the current response is proportionate, and I have a free right to that opinion. My rights should not be imposed upon just because others don't agree with me. If people don't want to mix and socialise with me, they can stay at home.
Just so long as you don't mix with the rest of us anywhere else and stay at home to get through the illness if you are unfortunate enough to catch it. Practically that is impossible, hence the temporary restraint of our liberties at present.
 

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All the things that the Government can do under the new legislation, such as close airports and sea ports at will; detain people far more easily; stop people moving around completely; ban gatherings and public events; and basically do whatever they like, is already available to them under the Civil Contingencies Act 2004. The only difference is that the earlier legislation requires far more oversight by Parliament and once in use, is required to be agreed and voted on by Parliament to renew every 28 days.

The new legislation has no such oversight or scrutiny and can remain in force unchecked for 2 years.

Here's the link to the key part of the original legislation: Civil Contingencies Act 2004

Basically the State can now control your every movement, if they choose to.
 

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I'm not crazy, the attack has begun.
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Discussion Starter #20
Just so long as you don't mix with the rest of us anywhere else and stay at home to get through the illness if you are unfortunate enough to catch it. Practically that is impossible, hence the temporary restraint of our liberties at present.
Yes, if I get it I'd stay sick at home, just like I would normally.

... Not sick ... not stay at home.
 
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