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I'll lay it out for you.

1. When you order a new Tesla do you have to pay for FSD ? Yes
2. Do you get FSD when you pay for it ? No
3. Having paid for it do you know when FSD will be delivered ? No
I’ll explain how you’re wrong on all points:
  1. FSD is completely optional. You can add it at any time if you change your mind as all cars come with the FSD hardware.
  2. Tesla are very clear about FSD rollout of features on the order page. For example NoA and Advanced Summon are part of the FSD feature set that has been released for a while. Traffic light response has just been released.
  3. Full FSD release is in the future with broad timescales. Tesla stress that this is dependent on local legislation. It’s been pretty clear to anyone actually buying it.
Please come back when you’ve read up on this subject and have something useful to contribute.
 

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Discussion Starter #23
I’ll explain how you’re wrong on all points:
  1. FSD is completely optional. You can add it at any time if you change your mind as all cars come with the FSD hardware.
  2. Tesla are very clear about FSD rollout of features on the order page. For example NoA and Advanced Summon are part of the FSD feature set that has been released for a while. Traffic light response has just been released.
  3. Full FSD release is in the future with broad timescales. Tesla stress that this is dependent on local legislation. It’s been pretty clear to anyone actually buying it.
Please come back when you’ve read up on this subject and have something useful to contribute.
I'll add one thing I do know from personal experience a couple of months ago:

When I went for a test ride in the US and spoke to the rep about terms, as expected, they did have a lower-cost possibility, which is I could pay about USD $35k-$36k, pre-tax, and get a somewhat smaller range, and the autonomous vehicle hardware would be there but would not be activated. In theory, later on a few kWh of battery and the AV features could be unlocked by Tesla, if I understood correctly, if I paid $4k or $5k more which would it to about $39k-$40k total pre-tax (something like that).

The bigger issue to me though, here for this thread, is to give credit to Tesla where it is due, on the matter of the pre-orders for the cybertruck. DaveRich has tried to extend the vaporware argument to the idea that Tesla will not deliver substantially what it has promised on the cybertruck, and while it is possible things will work out that way, this strikes me as trying to extend the argument too far. Tesla is five for five on delivering on its previous vehicles - a momentous achievement in each case (notwithstanding flaws/issues, some of which have been severe). Why be so strongly skeptical of Tesla delivering on the cybertruck? I think it's reasonable to theorize that they will either deliver on the key aspects barring an unforeseen impossible-to-overcome disaster, or it will come close enough to satisfy most of those pre-order folks.
 

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It’s a funny old world when people think that anything is ‘free’...

Re the cyber truck, it’s just not Battlestar Galactica enough for me, it’s a sort of awkward half way house, caught between two eras.

it also looks like the love child of a De Lorean and a Ford F50.

Over 600k people disagree with me though, so fair enough.

I think the EV revolution is one thing, but Cv-19 is another, and it will be a tough road to launch any new model anything in the next couple of years.

If you emerge from this crisis with your health and wealth though, I can see why you’d stump up for something so playful.
 

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In reality the Cybertruck isn’t made for the OCONUS market - it’s just too big for any normal use.

How many Ford 150s or Toyota Tundras do you see at Tescos?

However for the US market it’s ideal. And the market is huge. 600k sales doesn’t even touch the sides, but it will eat into the high margin Raptor sales and the like and make the OEMs wake up.
 

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It goes against everything I think regarding personal transport, but I’d love to own a big Ford Pickup, there’d be at least one on Tesco’s car park if I had my way!

It will never happen of course, I think I’m watching too many episodes of Gold Rush on Discovery...
 

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Having just watched a Range Rover 5.0 P565 gingerly reversing down our dead end lane outside the house, I’m reminded it’s not just pick ups that are too big for the UKs roads!

Just googled the price of one of those, £175k?!

People should not complain about the price of any EV on that basis.
 

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Discussion Starter #28
In reality the Cybertruck isn’t made for the OCONUS market - it’s just too big for any normal use. [...]
I'd like to drive a pickup sometime, and a large percentage of my friends drive them (both as a need and a want) but the size problem is worth noting. It impacts not only the driver, but those around them. It's difficult to see through or around large pickups and SUVs, such as if one is trying to navigate safely in turning left through an intersection.

Just brainstorming for a moment, and not relevant to the original topic I posted, but I wonder if it would be possible for Tesla to innovate some partial solution to this. For example, if a vehicle is stuck behind a cybertruck, and both are trying to make a left at an intersection, then there is a heightened danger that the vehicle behind the cybertruck will decide the moment to turn left based on too little information as to what is coming, and could get into an accident. If there were mutually-agreed vehicle communication protocols, could the cybertruck in some way "broadcast" information to the truck following it? Could this information appear on a HUD or a screen in the trailing vehicle? I suppose it could be something as primitive as a backward-facing video screen on the cybertruck such that a vehicle following closely could see the screen and it might be as though they were seeing through the truck? Or perhaps the overhead lights at the intersection could be equipped with cameras and communication equipment?

Somehow these ideas seem like they are (probably) too much of a stretch. If we got to the point where all the kinks were worked out of this, and there were enough vehicles on the road equipped to receive improved communication about the road ahead, then wouldn't we also likely be at the point where the vehicles could make the decisions anyway? However, it seems worth at least thinking about. I do like the idea of smartening up the roads in some ways, and thus allowing for improved safety even prior to safety improvements that are claimed will come with autonomous vehicles.
 

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Discussion Starter #29
Another general point to be aware of in contemplating differences between the US and other countries in the pickup truck markets is the decades-old 25% tax on pickups and I think at least some SUVs imported to the US.

 

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In reality the Cybertruck isn’t made for the OCONUS market - it’s just too big for any normal use.

How many Ford 150s or Toyota Tundras do you see at Tescos?
I don't get this, it's smaller than a white transit van... how many of those do you see... everywhere?!
 

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I don't get this, it's smaller than a white transit van... how many of those do you see... everywhere?!
Well you certainly notice when you see a LWB transit parked in Tescos - it’s almost impossible to get past.

By that same logic, you see articulated lorries everywhere, but not in a Tesco car park. ;)
 
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