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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Has anyone else noticed that the DRLs turn off when you engage the parking brake on an e-Niro? Even if its still in D mode?

This seems very odd to me. Is it really supposed to do that?

If I'm sat in a queue at traffic lights for any time, I usually engage the P brake to I can relax my foot. I tend not to use auto-hold, as I feel that a real mechanical brake seems more secure - maybe I'm just old fashioned! I can usually see though that in my reflection in the car in front, the running lights go off when I do this.
 

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Has anyone else noticed that the DRLs turn off when you engage the parking brake on an e-Niro? Even if its still in D mode?

This seems very odd to me. Is it really supposed to do that?

If I'm sat in a queue at traffic lights for any time, I usually engage the P brake to I can relax my foot. I tend not to use auto-hold, as I feel that a real mechanical brake seems more secure - maybe I'm just old fashioned! I can usually see though that in my reflection in the car in front, the running lights go off when I do this.
Photo from the manual, seems normal what you are seeing.
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
There seem to be actually quite a few discussions on this topic elsewhere (not related to the e-Niro). Here's an example:


This states that the regulations specifically allow for a car to turn off the DRL when parking brake is applied, but do not require it. It seems a very odd decision by ANY car maker to turn them off when a car has its 'engine' running and 'in gear' (powered up in D mode on a e-Niro), as this condition is a clear sign that the car is being actively driven. This is especially true with an electric parking brake that releases automatically at the slightest tap on the throttle. The fact that the parking brake is engaged does NOT imply that the car is 'parked'! When in D mode, it is very much still being driven and DRL should be ON to warn those around it that the car is live and likely to move at any time, even if it just happens to be stationary.

Surely it should make no difference whether the car is being held on the foot brake, auto-hold, the motor (left paddle) or the parking brake - in all cases the car is being driven and is 'running' but stationary, and the DRL should be on.

I was taught to engage the 'handbrake' when stationary to avoid dazzling those behind with by brake lights - doesn't mean the car is not 'running'!
 

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I do not see why the running lights are needed when the parking brake is on. They are to make the vehicle more visible when it is being driven. Personally I prefer them to turn off when the parking brake is on. They come on again when the parking brake is released.
 

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Has anyone else noticed that the DRLs turn off when you engage the parking brake on an e-Niro? Even if its still in D mode?

This seems very odd to me. Is it really supposed to do that?

If I'm sat in a queue at traffic lights for any time, I usually engage the P brake to I can relax my foot. I tend not to use auto-hold, as I feel that a real mechanical brake seems more secure - maybe I'm just old fashioned! I can usually see though that in my reflection in the car in front, the running lights go off when I do this.
Yes it’s correct behaviour. The DRL LEDs also vary in brightness quite considerably (depending upon modes but I can’t remember what, sorry)

The Auto Hold mode actually does use mechanical brakes, very much so. It applies the hydraulic disc brakes (not the servo motor rear wheel parking brakes) after you come to a complete stop. You can sometimes feel and hear them squeak slightly as they release the stiction when you press the go pedal. Especially if theres a bit of rust film on them after being parked. Peter.
 

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I do not see why the running lights are needed when the parking brake is on. They are to make the vehicle more visible when it is being driven. Personally I prefer them to turn off when the parking brake is on. They come on again when the parking brake is released.
They are to make the vehicle more visible when it is on the road. Even if your stationary you might want to be visible to other people. The original poster applies the parking brake while waiting for a traffic light, which I find odd, but apart from that, he is on the road, with other cars, cyclists etc around him.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Why is using the parking brake in queues odd? The UK Highway Code, rule 114, states:

In stationary queues of traffic, drivers should apply the parking brake and, once the following traffic has stopped, take their foot off the footbrake to deactivate the vehicle brake lights. This will minimise glare to road users behind until the traffic moves again.

Seems very clear to me. Yes it may be that Auto Hold achieves the same thing (but does it? Does it turn off the brake lights?)
 

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Why is using the parking brake in queues odd? The UK Highway Code, rule 114, states:

In stationary queues of traffic, drivers should apply the parking brake and, once the following traffic has stopped, take their foot off the footbrake to deactivate the vehicle brake lights. This will minimise glare to road users behind until the traffic moves again.

Seems very clear to me. Yes it may be that Auto Hold achieves the same thing (but does it? Does it turn off the brake lights?)
This might be a US/UK thing? In The Netherlands you are told to put the car in first gear, put the clutch down (obviously) and apply the brakes. The reason: if the light turns green, you don't want to have to think about releasing the parking brake and switching into first gear. Also, applying the parking brake is apparently depending on the status of any traffic behind you. That seems unnecessarily complex. But it might boil down to what you are used to :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
This might be a US/UK thing? In The Netherlands you are told to put the car in first gear, put the clutch down (obviously) and apply the brakes. The reason: if the light turns green, you don't want to have to think about releasing the parking brake and switching into first gear. Also, applying the parking brake is apparently depending on the status of any traffic behind you. That seems unnecessarily complex. But it might boil down to what you are used to :)
That is of course exactly what many UK drivers do too - myself included sometimes, especially if its clear that the wait will be a short one. It is very much safer though to have the car in a state where it will not move if you accidentally relax your feet - i.e. in N with the parking brake applied in a manual ICE car, or the P brake applied in a e-Niro (or auto-hold, or P mode selected). Also, brake lights can be very dazzling to those behind, at night.
 

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That is of course exactly what many UK drivers do too - myself included sometimes, especially if its clear that the wait will be a short one. It is very much safer though to have the car in a state where it will not move if you accidentally relax your feet - i.e. in N with the parking brake applied in a manual ICE car, or the P brake applied in a e-Niro (or auto-hold, or P mode selected). Also, brake lights can be very dazzling to those behind, at night.
As I said, it boils down to what you feel comfortable with. We could try to solve the "very much safer" comment but my guess is, we will not agree :).

Anyhow, the issue was about the DRL's turing off when the car is put in (P)ark. I would prefer to have them on all the time, because I think it is safer.
 

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Why is using the parking brake in queues odd? The UK Highway Code, rule 114, states:

In stationary queues of traffic, drivers should apply the parking brake and, once the following traffic has stopped, take their foot off the footbrake to deactivate the vehicle brake lights. This will minimise glare to road users behind until the traffic moves again.

Seems very clear to me. Yes it may be that Auto Hold achieves the same thing (but does it? Does it turn off the brake lights?)
No, the brake lights do remain on when stopped using auto hold.

That Highway Code rule was probably written in the days of Morris minors etc. I think most folk with modern auto cars would just sit in D with the brake pedal holding TBH. Some will follow that ancient rule, but not many I reckon. Unless it’s an extended wait in a stationary traffic jam. HWC is full of rules to get you through the driver test, but rarely get adhered to once you are fully licensed. Isn’t there an old rule that says at every Stop junction you should apply parking brake, look both ways then proceed? I mean who still does that?

As for the brake lights (some won’t like this comment I’m sure) I would much rather they stay on in a temporary traffic queue or junction. I would much rather cause minor dazzle annoyances to cars behind than be shunted up the rear due to lack of following drivers attention! Especially on motorways, to see a long stationary string of bright stop lights ahead surely must help to reduce chances of multiple vehicle pile ups. I don’t mind when the car in front has brake lights on. It alerts me to when I need to set off when they go off! Peter

PS I didn’t used to like using Auto Hold but I am swaying towards using it now. It’s very handy, as long as you remember to turn it off when trying to inch using creep into a tight space or similar. I wish now I could set it to remain on by default in fact.
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
If anyone is interested, there is a great long blog here from an Advanced Driving Instructor about the use of parking brakes:

He doesn't mention the relationship with DRL, but it is very clear that using the parking brake is correct and expected in various situations where a car is still very much being driven. Waiting at a pedestrian crossing (esp. if at the front of the queue) being an important case where you would certainly expect the DRL to be lit, and you should be using the parking brake for pedestrian safety.

So - I stand by my original assertion that Kia's implementation, turning off the DRL when the P brake is applied, is non-sensical.
 

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The logic has not changed since the first edition of the highway code. It is still safer and more courteous to use the handbrake.

I find it extremely irritating and inconsiderate when people in front sit with their foot on the brake at traffic lights etc. High level brake lights only make it worse. I have never had trouble using the handbrake in either ICE or EVs. I learn to drive that way and find it completely instinctive and does not delay pulling away when done properly. With electronic handbrakes that auto release, it is even easier. Please stop dazzling others and follow the highway code and institute of advanced drivers recommendation. If you persist, please do not be offended if you observe an unofficial hand gesture in your rear view mirror indicating that you have 2 unwelcome lights being displayed.

I have never made up my mind about the benefit of DRL, but if we are going to have them, they should be on all the time unless the vehicle is actually parked. If not the DRL should be on to show that the vehicle is “in active use”.
 

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Please stop dazzling others and follow the highway code and institute of advanced drivers recommendation. If you persist, please do not be offended if you observe an unofficial hand gesture in your rear view mirror indicating that you have 2 unwelcome lights being displayed.
I'll keep that in mind when I visit the UK next time. If you ever visit the Netherlands you better keep your unofficial hand gestures to an absolute minimum as we think it is safer to keep both hands on the steering wheel.
Even when in a line:)
 

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....I find it extremely irritating and inconsiderate when people in front sit with their foot on the brake at traffic lights etc....
Sorry, I don’t meant to offend but not a chance that I’m changing my ways. I can tolerate hand gestures (and give them back as needed 😂) and I’ve not had any yet. Around these parts most everyone does the same thing with the brake lights, in traffic lights queuing. It’s just not an issue for most reasonable tolerant folks. On modern cars, the “handbrake” is named “parking brake” it is only intended to be used when you are parked.

I found it incredibly much more inconsiderate when a guy slammed into my rear whilst I was stopped at a red light 23 years ago. I got nasty lingering whiplash and my car was very nearly written off (Toyota Carina). It took ages to get it fixed. Since then I always keep brake lights on unless it’s a mega long wait and a stationary queue has formed behind. I was actually pleased to learn that the auto hold feature does this for me automagically. I knew stating this methodology would annoy some on here, but I’m sticking to it. Red lights in my face don’t bother me a bit, it’s not an issue if you adopt the right mindset IMHO. Peter.
 

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When Adam was a lad and I was taught to drive it was a fail if you didn't put car in neutral and handbrake on at lights, crossings etc. The rationale being that you did not want to be shunted into traffic or a pedestrian on the crossing.

A decade ago, when partner was taught to drive in London this seemed to have been amended to holding the handbrake and keeping the car in gear - allegedly to facilitate traffic flow.

That's always felt bonkers to me, as a shunt means you get engine assist to blast you into traffic - however the good lady insists....

I drive with auto hold and full regen - effectively one pedal - didn't know that this held the brake lights on - not convinced it should do that, especially at night - IMHO it should be when you're decelerating not when you're stopped.
 

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I too would have failed my test if I did not use the handbrake, but I realise drivers these days may lack the ability to perform such a complex procedure. :) Looking at many of the latest cars, I assume everything will soon be done from a touch screen, why we wait for self driving cars that may not need pedals, lights or windscreens.

To be honest, the hand gestures are only in my head. I don’t have a spare hand because I need to shield my eyes. How about a compromise, use your foot brake in daylight and handbrake after dark so that I can keep at least some night vision.
 

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In the past I always kept my brake lights on until I had a car right behind me, then I would release the footbrake and rely on the handbrake. No need to dazzle the car behind, the same as the idiots who leave their rear foglights on permanently, just shows they aren't paying attention to driving the car.
 

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Red lights apparently don’t diminish night vision sensitivity. That’s why in submarines and astronomy clubs they use red light 😂. Maybe your eyes are hyper sensitive compared to my ageing ones 😉

My conscience is clear anyway as I use Auto Hold a lot recently. So I’m not turning the brake lights on.... the car is 😂😂😂 Peter
 

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In the past I always kept my brake lights on until I had a car right behind me, then I would release the footbrake and rely on the handbrake. No need to dazzle the car behind, the same as the idiots who leave their rear foglights on permanently, just shows they aren't paying attention to driving the car.
I agree completely re the fog lights. They are much more intense than normal brake lights. They really are annoying especially at night. Mostly at night they are not even needed at all unless it’s very very thick fog. The normal rear lights are adequate at night in light mist mostly. They are very good in daylight fog. They also can obliterate the actual brake lights to a large degree. Peter.
 
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