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Discussion Starter #1
I have been studying the Autotrader ads recently and the BMW dealers really seem unrealistic about the price of up to 1 year old 93Ah i3s. They all seemed to be priced around the 30K mark, there was one that's just coming up to 1 ear old with 10K or so miles on it for 28.5K or so. The cars are more often than not slightly wrongly described in Autotrader, as having expensive options (they don't have), different mileage and dealers often put up a huge list of options, for which is actually just a base level car..

A quick search on the BMW central site and unbelievably the current finance and deposit contribution deals often make it more sensible to buy a brand new BMW i3 94Ah rex (part ex on your existing car) on the BMW offers than purchase a used one. Even when it's cost neutral the new one is brand new with full warranty. now I know theres PCP, PCH etc,, et.c but I, just quoting 1 option.

Perhaps it's people willing to pay a premium to not have to wait....but the price of the car is such that this seems unlikely. Have i got my maths wrong? Example below:

Advert below, 32K car has pronav and a wait until September when it's 6 months old, payment to dealer in full or expensive finance. But is 6 months older, 6 months less MOT etc..
BMW I3 HATCHBACK 94Ah Range Extender 5dr Auto

Or a brand new one on current BMW deal, paid gradually over 4 years
 

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This tends to be the case for a number of manufacturers and dealerships. Buying new almost certainly gives you more discounts and better rates than a second hand car.

I suspect that might be because dealerships and manufacturers want to keep the new registrations high and don't care too much about second hand cars as long as they can make a profit on them.
 

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The high prices are just a result of the low supply of new ones and a generally high demand. BMW have almost sold they entire i3 production for this year so nearly new prices are typically worse than buying new.

I was at BMW HQ in Munich last month and they told me that the 94ah battery caused a huge surge in demand for the i3 and they confirmed that they are pretty much sold out this year.
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
The high prices are just a result of the low supply of new ones and a generally high demand. BMW have almost sold they entire i3 production for this year so nearly new prices are typically worse than buying new.

I was at BMW HQ in Munich last month and they told me that the 94ah battery caused a huge surge in demand for the i3 and they confirmed that they are pretty much sold out this year.
The high priced 93Ah cars are not really selling same ones week after week after week, only when they go down more (e.g. 28K) do they sell and on all of them they are willing to do deals, just not enough for me to find it even remotely tempting....1 or 2K off an already overpriced used car that's 1 year old with 10K vs brand new for 1.5 or 2K more, sound a lot better, especially as finance on uised is nearly 10% vs 1.3% on new.

I also wonder about BMWs statement to you, car manufacturers are not known for telling people the truth....if pretty much sold out this year, why are they still offering £1900 towards the deposit and 1.3% APR with a lead time of about 3 months? That's not a sign of them having this years production already sold out. Doesn't really make sense does it.

In fact a few of the salesmen have said to me that it's a bit odd what's happened and that they think these existing cars will have to be reduced, or they will become sticky and start costing the dealers a lot of money as they age.

I had not looked at the HP (and other) deals from central BMW in a long time....so glad I did.

P.S. In fact a few of the range extended 94Ah ones in Autotrader have just been reduced today, by about £500 -1K...
 

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I agree........with 1.3% APR on the new ones versus 10.9% on the second hand ones, it made sense to me to go for a new one, especially with inflation at over 2%, thats free money. currently looking at a late October/November delivery.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I agree........with 1.3% APR on the new ones versus 10.9% on the second hand ones, it made sense to me to go for a new one, especially with inflation at over 2%, thats free money. currently looking at a late October/November delivery.
Absolutely, you made the smart move with 1 year old ones costing about the same and same as you I was quoted 3 months delivery. Either the salesmen are not good at math or the simple facts of (a) inertia and (b) hopefulness in finding a few desperatey buyers so they can make their money...are holding them back...but you would have to be desperate to have one immediately to buy nearly new at current dealer prices.
 

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BMW operate price-fixing on i3 and i8 models. The dealers don't set the prices. I've reported this to the Competition and Marketing Authority because it doesn't seem right to me.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
BMW operate price-fixing on i3 and i8 models. The dealers don't set the prices. I've reported this to the Competition and Marketing Authority because it doesn't seem right to me.
On new cars sure, but not used. However, that's the same for almost all "premium" brand manufacturers.
 

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I seem to remember when I was buying mine that the sell and buy prices for i3s wasn't set by the dealer, but BMW UK. That included the used stock.

Still, their stock, so they can price it how they want I suppose.

Competition still exists in the eyes of the regulator of course, as you can just go to another brand to buy a car, just not an i3.
 

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From the conversation I had earlier this week with the dealer we had a test drive with I understood that BMW own the demonstrators and they have to ask BMW for a price for that car if they want to sell it.
We have seen a few cars that have a reasonable amount off the new price, but not one that suits us yet.
I want to buy the car through my company and BMW's new car pricing to companies is all aimed at contract hire. I want to keep the car beyond 3 years so that doesn't work. I would be happy with a pcp but I can't do that on a company purchase. The cheapest option I can see at the moment is to buy one outright and used is the cheapest way to do that, I am waiting until I see one at a good price though, or if I saw the perfect spec I would buy it too as long as it is less than the new pcp price.

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BMW can set any price they want. If Joe Public thinks it's too much they don't buy and then they have a load of them sat about until they drop the price to a realistic level.

With consumer spending falling they're all going to take a bath on second hand prices.
 

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Smoke and mirrors.
The advertised price is unlikely the selling price.
The advertised price is there to show what good value a new one is -to those people who know the value of nothing.
There might not even be a car to sell. When you ring-"i am sorry that ones just sold" thus reinforcing the idea of prices.
etc etc.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
From the conversation I had earlier this week with the dealer we had a test drive with I understood that BMW own the demonstrators and they have to ask BMW for a price for that car if they want to sell it.
With car salesmen, when the mouth is moving and sound is coming out, you have to assume they're lying.

Smoke and mirrors.
The advertised price is unlikely the selling price.
The advertised price is there to show what good value a new one is -to those people who know the value of nothing.
There might not even be a car to sell. When you ring-"i am sorry that ones just sold" thus reinforcing the idea of prices.
etc etc.
you are correct, the advertised price is what they would like to get, no part ex you might get a reduction and then you might get less on the part ex. I did the rounds quite thoroughly on a few dealers to find one where I could get decent PX on mine (very decent) and a 94Ah i3 Rex 9 months old for 28K - my trade in. Even at that,. it was actually still better to do BMWs current PCH deal!

Your comments actually reflect on whether the BMW i3 is an overpriced car.....and I actually think it is hugely overpriced. I really don't know what they are going to do when more competition arrives. e.g. if the Chevvy Bolt was sold in RHD in the UK (at a similar price to the US, do you think people would for a second consider the i3.

Second had Bev prices have been really hard hit with the 94Ah coming out, Rex not so much, but imagine what will happen to 60Ah Bev only prices next year!! People on forums might say no problem with the Bev make sure it's got fast charging, but really that's a crock....the 60Ah Bev makes no real sense with fast charging or long journeys.
 

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Your comments actually reflect on whether the BMW i3 is an overpriced car.....and I actually think it is hugely overpriced. I really don't know what they are going to do when more competition arrives. e.g. if the Chevvy Bolt was sold in RHD in the UK (at a similar price to the US, do you think people would for a second consider the i3.
The i3 is currently the only choice if you want a quick EV for less than £60k or you want a REX. It is however ridiculously expensive for a tiny car and I just can't see why anybody would buy one once Model 3 becomes generally available.
 

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When I was looking to get a second hand i3, virtually every dealer I contacted that was advertising an i3 said that the car was no longer available. I started to wonder if a lot of the advertised cars actual existed.
I did wonder if BMW was doing something underhand to keep values high.
 

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We like a small car, like the i3 and don't like the look of teslas. We will buy an i3, or the new Leaf, over the model 3 every time.
If I had money to spend on fast cars I may have a ludicrous model S just for the fun of it, but not going to have a tesla in our household. I wouldn't say never but it would only be in several years time when they are cheap enough to just to try one out for a few months to see what all the fuss is about.

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When I was looking to get a second hand i3, virtually every dealer I contacted that was advertising an i3 said that the car was no longer available. I started to wonder if a lot of the advertised cars actual existed.
I did wonder if BMW was doing something underhand to keep values high.
They are, it is called price fixing. It is bald-faced, plain-of-day old-fashioned price fixing.

They claim their dealers are acting as 'agents'.
 

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For what's worth, I really like the look of the i3 and love the way it drives and for the most part my experience of BMW / MINI service has been very good. In my opinion, the i3 is a perfect urban car and its range has never caused me an issue. I have only used the REX once and that was when I first collected it (good deal on a nearly new car) and drove it from Cardiff to London. Tesla's are fine, however I don't like saloons which rules out the too big 'S' and I think the also too big 'X' looks like a child has designed it. However, the '3' looks better to my eyes but I still prefer the unique i3.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
For what's worth, I really like the look of the i3 and love the way it drives and for the most part my experience of BMW / MINI service has been very good. In my opinion, the i3 is a perfect urban car and its range has never caused me an issue. I have only used the REX once and that was when I first collected it (good deal on a nearly new car) and drove it from Cardiff to London. Tesla's are fine, however I don't like saloons which rules out the too big 'S' and I think the also too big 'X' looks like a child has designed it. However, the '3' looks better to my eyes but I still prefer the unique i3.
Well if I had to be critical of my i3 Rex, compared to other EVs

1. The seats are uncomfortable, I sat in a leaf and it was positive luxury seating compared to an i3
2. The boot is small compared to a leaf or IONIQ....good luck taking 4 people and luggage.
3. It only seats 4, not 5 although rear seat headroom is good, legroom could be better by 3 inches
4. It's not very aerodynamic, so not a good motorway cruiser and eats battery at speeds above 50, it's most economical around 30-40 mph
5. The handling is skittish at speed on the motorway, especially in high winds
6. It's very very very expensive to repair
7. I'm not a fan of the the recycled interior hairy panels
8 Software could be better designed in areas, sometimes it's too clever by half
9. standard audio system seems top be as cheap as they could make it
10. Base car is missing options I would expect on electric vehicles
11. Driver seat on the right hand seat cushion has that wrinkled and compressed look, present on all used i3s I've seen with any significant mileage.
12 Pain and chrome on plastic boot badges already peeling in just over 3 .5 years (seen on a few i3s similar age)
13 paint peeling in door shuts on plastic panels visible from outside with door closed (seen on quite a few i3s).
14 non standard, usually not in stock (unless your paying £250 for fitting at a BMW i3 dealer and expensive tyres, even worse if you got 20 inchers.

It does have good points such as the low medium speed driving experience, handling at these speeds and unique look coupled wwith zippy acceleration....but the whole lightweight e co warrior thing has resulted in a LOT of compromises.
 

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It appears you bought the wrong car. Some of those points you'd of known going in such as boot size, number of seats. Some of the problems are there no matter what car you buy such as your wrinkled seats. Finally some of your points seem unaware that it is a premium city car and is like all other BMWs when it comes to general running costs and option ticking....

I'm not bashing your points as they are real for you but for me as a second car (commuter) that does 25k a year, going into the first 10k since March it's really impressed me. More than my 1 Series before it and more than my Dad's runaround a Mini JCW...
 
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