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We have done over 2000 miles now for free, we always charge when we go to these places, as others have said it takes seconds. We do shop in those shops and they are close to us so its not like we are going out of our way to do it. This weekend I have taken the boat to Sheffield, Jayne will come along tomorrow, we will go to Tescos to shop and plug in, more than likely Meadowhall, we will plug in , Jayne will go back on Sunday fully charged up with no effort. We can afford to pay but why bother when companies give it away for free? It also shows the demand for charging is there and thats important to us.
 

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Ampera aka IGOR
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Along with the previous points. If everybody was the same and did not use the charger, or not all the chargers were in use, the proprietor would think that they had wasted money installing them and might well have the number reduced or even removed. It's a case of use them or lose them and if they are seen to be fully utilised then there is the chance that more may be added.
 

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Ioniq 38kwh 2020
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I generally find most destination chargers a bit of a waste of time. I mean how long are you going to stay at a garden centre or supermarket. An hour? It's barely worth the bother plugging the cable in.
Yes obviously hotels/theme parks etc.
But trouble is, make them free people will use them just because they are free, charge a sustainable price, Eg 25p a kWh and they'll hardly get used.
There's 2 at my local leisure centre, they charge 30p per kWh, I've yet to see anyone actually charging at them.
 

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Kia e-Niro 4 MY20
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Single supermarket, you're right. Convenient for town centre and multiple shops, that's a different matter... I've already done the maths. Free is worth it for me.

Low cost probably wouldn't be. High cost, 30p/kW is a nonsense for 7kW charging. There's possibly some value if they're 22kW points, but even then there's likely cheaper options.
 

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Ioniq 38kwh 2020
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Single supermarket, you're right. Convenient for town centre and multiple shops, that's a different matter... I've already done the maths. Free is worth it for me.

Low cost probably wouldn't be. High cost, 30p/kW is a nonsense for 7kW charging. There's possibly some value if they're 22kW points, but even then there's likely cheaper options.
But that's my point, large commercial users generally pay more for electric compared to domestic rates. And they also usually suffer the extra 15% vat. So it will never be sustainable to get even close to using domestic power. I'd wager even 25p per kWh would only marginally break even, once installation/on going maintenance costs are considered. So it will require subsidising somehow for ever. Doubtful once every other car is an EV.
 

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When I asked my local Garden Centre owner whether he was thinking about installing EV charging points, his answer was short and to the point. I want my customers to come; buy and go. I am not interested in providing free electricity to passers by who come; buy nothing and stay. He has a point.
 

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But that's my point, large commercial users generally pay more for electric compared to domestic rates. And they also usually suffer the extra 15% vat. So it will never be sustainable to get even close to using domestic power. I'd wager even 25p per kWh would only marginally break even, once installation/on going maintenance costs are considered. So it will require subsidising somehow for ever. Doubtful once every other car is an EV.
I don't believe that's correct. A quick check shows commercial rates are generally slightly less per unit compared to domestic rates. There are also day/night/evening/weekend rates that vary and these varying rates are offered to business customers. This averages out to bring the overall cost down.

They do have to pay more VAT.

I don't really know why these free points are installed. My guess is this is part of the company responsible being able to count something towards green credentials.

This isn't really a discussion about whether they're viable. Loss leaders are never viable but there are many companies who use them. Right now I'm doing a load of work for a customer, for free, because a high up hopes they'll get more work out of them later.

There will be a benefit to the business for offering these.
 

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I partly agree with your point about free and anyone uses, pay and no one uses.
The leisure centre is an ideal place for people to go who don't have home chargers, but who'd pay 30pKw on a 7Kwh charger. This is over priced and the infrastructure is not that expensive to set up compared to a rapid charger. Price it at 15 - 20ppKw and it may be encourage use by those who can't charge at home.
It the same as the street fast chargers. The ones I've seen are over priced for day to day charging.
 

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ID.4 1st edition (previously Mitsubishi outlander PHEV)
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a 'friend' of mine, has an ev and he doesnt have a charge point at home (he charges at work all the time), but at weekends he parks in the local garden centre which has a number of free destination chargers which are 3kWh... just because its 2 minutes from the house and he isnt paying the 16p kWh he would at home!

Some of the most well off people I know are also the tightest and least generous. And conversly some of the poorest people I know are the most generous (and coinsidently the happiest)
Maybe money is the cause of bad behaviour and as tooks said earlier
 

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Morrisons don't. They use Geniepoint which are 35p (registered) or 39p/kWh (guest). However it is triple head Ac/DC charger, not just a 7kw one.
Some Morrisons Geniepoints are double-headed (CCS+Chademo) with a 22kW Type 2 socket on the front [Choice between these and the triple-headed version is probably based on supply availability]. As the Genepoint chargers are capable of charging both one DC and the AC at the same time, the Type 2 socketed version is of more use to me as if a DC connector is already in use, I can trickle charge (at 3.6kW) using my Type 2 to Type 1 lead while waiting for the DC side to become free.
 

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I don't believe that's correct. A quick check shows commercial rates are generally slightly less per unit compared to domestic rates. There are also day/night/evening/weekend rates that vary and these varying rates are offered to business customers. This averages out to bring the overall cost down.

They do have to pay more VAT.

I don't really know why these free points are installed. My guess is this is part of the company responsible being able to count something towards green credentials.

This isn't really a discussion about whether they're viable. Loss leaders are never viable but there are many companies who use them. Right now I'm doing a load of work for a customer, for free, because a high up hopes they'll get more work out of them later.

There will be a benefit to the business for offering these.
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Add the VAT to those and even a high business user at 80k kWh a year will be paying over 15p per kWh on average.

That may well be slightly lower than the "average" domestic tariff, but clearly no business is going to not lose money by supplying electricity at anything less than around 20p after the back end transaction costs, even if you write off the installation costs.

The loss leader 4pints of milk or crate of beer for example isn't free, it's sold slightly below cost.
Otherwise people would just go in to the supermarket and grab unlimited free milk, like they do with free chargers currently. Completely unsustainable.
 
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ID.4 1st edition (previously Mitsubishi outlander PHEV)
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The ones I've seen are over priced for day to day charging.
over priced is relative.

if average home rate is 16p/kWh what do you consider fair? (not everyone is on Octpus go or another multi tariff scheme)
Who should pay for the charge point hardware and installation? How long should it take to get this back? If you consider the average home charge point being £600 then an extra of 10p (ie 26p per kW/h) if you charge at 30kWh per night is nearly a year to recoup. BUT public chargers also have to maintain the h/w to ensure it works because people look after the things they dont own!!! So lets say 5p /kWh for maintenence. Im now circa 30p per kWh. for a fast charger. Is that fair???

BUT you want the luxury of charging in 45 minutes so I need to build a new substation and put in £50k units to charge the car... then we have a 5 year life expectancy for these units, so we want to recoup in 1-2 years to make a profit and justify the business case to install. So it cost £200K-£500k for the site fees, substation installation, charge point and infrastructure installation (no itea of the real cost but this would be a typical expectation for multiple 100kWh+ charge points!) Is 50p for a rapid charger really overpriced?

If you say the government should pay for all this infrastructure and h/w, then where does their money come from... we pay it in taxes. So it then becomes a hidden cost and the goverments and councils want to divert that money to other uses, so progress is slowed down. But do you want to pay £10 per month extra in taxes yet still have to pay at the charge point?

So back to to the point... what does over priced mean? Or are you just comparing home charging to public charging and not considering the benefits and costs associated with public charging?

Personally... I will need to use a public charger maybe 20 times a year... but when I do, I wont care about the costs because of the convienence.
How else will I be able to own an EV and go to Cornwall or North Wales or Scotland for a break?

In reality, if you dont need to charge from a public charger, then dont. It is more expensive than having a charge point at home. (as you said for day to day but neglected to say, if you have a home charger) So dont hunt for chargers when you dont need them, its not worth it.
Places that give it free, are getting the costs back from somewhere, you just dont know where from... usually from patronage to the store. And they are Slow charge points, so is it really worth it (as Orrery said)

If you havent got a home charger, then someone has to pay for the infrastucture so you cant compare kWh prices at the charge point with domestic prices. You have to expect to pay to use that public charge point providing the infrastructure and maintaining it (however badly!)
 

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Destination chargers are fine to use whether you ‘need’ charge or just want to, in my opinion. Rapids are where you go when you need a charge.

Maxed out chargers should signal a good decision by the destination and a reason to add more!

Of course I only destination charge when it’s free, as I think will be increasingly common with bigger batteries. Putting them at the back of the car park also helps me to decide if I can be bothered!
 

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Someone mentioned this earlier... there are different use cases.
A destination charger at a premier inn, where I've driven 150 miles to get to, and will need 150 miles to get back from; is very different to a destinaiton charger at my local supermarket.

TBH, I cant be bothered to use a local destination charger, unless it gives me an advantage to use it. eg IKEA where the parking is usually a better location with more space when use a charge point.

So I'm happy to pay if the price justifies the advantage to me.
 

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Speak, Eevee!
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Do people still play pokemon go???? wasnt that the big think in back in 2016!!! lol
The 2016 level of popularity lasted a month or so lol (that was fascinating though, never seen anything like it, literally everyone I saw outside was playing it)

But yeah still has its dedicated core of players, local group here is still as active as it ever was. I haven't played for a few months myself as they never release more than the odd 1 or 2 new into the wild and I find the pandemic version with remote raiding pretty dull. Can't wait for it to encourage people to meet face to face again, outdoors, where we already know it's safe. But that's for another thread..
 

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Kona64
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Just to etiquette...... >

YES it is acceptable to swear loudly if the charging bay is ICED

YES it is acceptable to also swear if the bay is empty but the darn thing won't work

YES it is acceptable to go WHOOOOOOP YEAHHHHHHHH I DID IT BABY. when the thing connects and begins charging, but you must use appropriate + over the top arm gestures, towards any and every human nearby

No it's not ok to get out of the car, drop all the RFID cards all over the place and spend 5mins trying to pick them up, at which point another car pulls up and asks if you're just going. Plan ahead, have the right card in hand before opening the car door.

No it's not okay to be rude when a passenger says " Basically, you've no idea when we will get home, have you?", if either of the top 2 occur.

Happy To Help
 

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(PHEV can go to the bottom of the list though :p )
What an odd comment. So you are in a BEV with a 200 mile range, and are 30 miles from home in a garden centre so you can get home fine on battery, yet you believe you need a charge more than someone who lives 30 miles away and who in 2 miles if they don’t get a charge will have their petrol engine fire up, and they will have to drive home on fossil fuel?? Just because you are “better” than them for having a BEV? Do you think you have more “right” to a free charge than them - who couldn’t get home on their small battery?

Very environmentally friendly......

PHEV’s have much smaller ranges on battery, so actually benefit more from a slow destination charger than the EV driver with 70% battery left, so no, the PHEV driver should go to the top of the list - unless you believe that it’s better to burn fossil fuel than use an EV......
 

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VW ID.3 Worst Edition & Tesla M3 LR
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What an odd comment. So you are in a BEV with a 200 mile range, and are 30 miles from home in a garden centre so you can get home fine on battery, yet you believe you need a charge more than someone who lives 30 miles away and who in 2 miles if they don’t get a charge will have their petrol engine fire up, and they will have to drive home on fossil fuel?? Just because you are “better” than them for having a BEV? Do you think you have more “right” to a free charge than them - who couldn’t get home on their small battery?

Very environmentally friendly......

PHEV’s have much smaller ranges on battery, so actually benefit more from a slow destination charger than the EV driver with 70% battery left, so no, the PHEV driver should go to the top of the list - unless you believe that it’s better to burn fossil fuel than use an EV......
Blimey, I agree with you! 😂

It’s still first come first served re destination chargers, of course, but I agree that PHEVs have as much right to be on them as anything else, and anything that avoids the burning of fossil fuels is a good thing.

I used to plug my GTE in at every opportunity, in the 4 years and 90k+ miles I owned it, over 40k miles of that were plugged in electric miles, I’m not counting the electric miles from burning petrol.

They definitely have a place, you just need to plug them in as often as possible and I found destination and workplace charging ideal for that, although I imagine it hacked a few BEV owners of at times. Hey ho.
 
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