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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So I've tried a couple of charge point installers and they wont touch it.

To explain,
The parking space is at the end of the garden, 35 metres from the consumer unit. There is no way through the house for the cable (full width extension on a terrace house) and so the cabling needs to go up into the attic, through the loft space, out through the back wall of the house and along the garden wall . The consumer unit is in a small space and has no spare spaces so a new unit would be required in addition to the existing one and the meter moving to fit it.

All have said it's too big a job for them, and particularly that they are not insured for working at height.

So the options are:
1. to get a separate electrician to do the work and then call them back once all the cabling and internals are done ( I'm waiting for a quote from my usual electrician)

2. Run the cabling myself and then get them back to connect up each end ( I'm being quoted £1200 for this)

3. Run the cabling and get an electrician to sort consumer unit andfit a commando outlet so I. Can use an ohme cable. And forget about the grant

4. or to make do with a granny charger off the shed power. We have half a dozen on street chargers within 100 yards so I may also try to use them when I need.

Really I'm looking for suggestions.
I've been told I need 6mm cabling with high tuff 3 core for the externals. Do I use 6mm twin and earth inside and how do I connect them safely when going through the back wall?
Should I be using some kind of conduit down the back wall?
Is there anything else to be aware of?


Thanks for any replies.
 

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Run the cable yourself sounds like the best bet. Use 6mm three core SWA, not NYY-J (a.k.a Hituff) as you need the additional mechanical protection where it runs down the garden wall, I suspect. If you choose to use conduit down the wall (makes for a neater looking job IMHO) the NYY-J is OK, as the conduit provides the required mechanical protection.

Just use a single run of cable, no joins or converting to different cable types, makes life easier and avoids the need to have a (probably) maintenance free junction somewhere.

Consider using EV Ultra cable if you think you may need a connection for a current transformer for load sensing. More expensive than normal SWA, but saves running a separate cable.

Think about how to get wifi down to the charge point location. 35m is pushing it from the house, so you will probably need to look at fitting something like a directional external access point. I've just fitted a TP Link CPE210 (under £50) and it was dead easy to install and set up, and has a pretty long range (up to a mile with a pair of them used as a point to point link). Should get wifi to the end of your garden OK.

Much of the cost will be in fitting the cable, so doing this yourself should save a lot. The snag is that the installer needs to be confident that the cable is installed correctly, in compliance with the regs. Main things to watch for are things like ensuring it's clipped inside the house to meet the prevention of premature collapse reqiuirements, that it's not run through insulation, or close to hot pipes, and that it's properly clipped supported Leave generous lengths at the ends to allow different options for wiring it up.

Not hard to do this, but time consuming and a bit messy where you have to go through the loft. Also make sure the routing down through the house is within the safe zones, places denoted in the regs where cables are expected to be if they end up chased into walls etc.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks,
I'm fairly confident the cables will be in safe locations as they will follow the path of existing cables down through the airing cupboard and under the landing to the trunking that is already in place so no chasing required.

I was concerned about getting the cable flush to the wall as I understand it's not as flexible.

I'll look into the EV ultra, might be a bit of futureproofing should we need a heat pump.
 

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We had a similar problem, albeit less complex, in that our consumer unit is on an internal wall and cabling had to go up into the attic, across, and down the front of the house. PodPoint and BP both wouldn't get involved with routing the cable because of the working at height bits (or they wanted to charge an extra £500 for another man, and a ladder...).

Ended up going with BP who sent the required length cable to be routed by our friendly electrician, and then they came and connected at both ends.
 

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Thanks,
I'm fairly confident the cables will be in safe locations as they will follow the path of existing cables down through the airing cupboard and under the landing to the trunking that is already in place so no chasing required.

I was concerned about getting the cable flush to the wall as I understand it's not as flexible.

I'll look into the EV ultra, might be a bit of futureproofing should we need a heat pump.

SWA is more flexible than NYY-J/Hi Tuff, as it uses stranded, rather than solid, cores. If you can, leave it somewhere warm for an hour, as it's easier to handle when warm than it is when freezing cold. Roll the cable out completely before you start, so there are no twists, and you can just pull it into the house. Definitely easier to do with two of you for the bit where you are getting it fed into the loft from outside, then down into the house. Having one person pushing and another pulling saves a lot of running around.

In terms of price, 6mm² three core SWA is around £3/m and EV Ultra is around double that. If you can, get SWA with single phase colours. Most 3 core SWA is stocked in three phase colours, but some stockists do keep three core in single phase colours. Doesn't matter too much, but getting the right core colours saves having to sleeve the cores at both ends. EV Ultra three core + data cable is in single phase colours anyway.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
So I'm looking at
New consumer unit and full house re-test by an electrician, running the cables myself and then getting a charger installed by a charger installer. Probable cost well over £2,000.

My thoughts at the moment are to wait for the quote on replacing the consumer unit and then run the cables after that's been done.
 

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In terms of who should install what etc, i always ask myself this question when something needs doing in my home; how long will it take me and how much could i earn if i went to work in that time instead? If the quote is cheaper then my time, ill go with it.

(**to add: you still require a sparks to sign off ans dont go with the 4th option of using a granny charger/public chargers all the time).

If you do install the cable:
Probably cheaper to run armoured cat5e that length compared to ev ultra. Appearance wise its not going to look too much different if you are running an armoured from top to bottom of your house. Just cleat both cables close to each other rather then zip-tying. For a neater job id remove your gutter downpipe, install cables behind (or close to, dependent on downpipe clips?), then put downpipe back.

Double check the complete cable measurement, if its getting close to 45-50mtrs, you may have to up the cable csa. Also, you want to make sure you order the right length (correct length plus at least 10% min).

Also make sure you space the cleats correctly so you dont get snagged by your sparks, id say 400mm between cleats should be ok for 6mm 3c. As jeremy has said, you should clip the cable for the entire length and avoid pipes and insulation. You should also fill in any holes made with an intrumescent mastic (not foam!).
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
and dont go with the 4th option of using a granny charger/public chargers all the time

If you do install the cable:
Probably cheaper to run armoured cat5e that length compared to ev ultra. Appearance wise its not going to look too much different if you are running an armoured from top to bottom of your house. Just cleat both cables close to each other rather then zip-tying. For a neater job id remove your gutter downpipe, install cables behind (or close to, dependent on downpipe clips?), then put downpipe back.

Double check the complete cable measurement, if its getting close to 45-50mtrs, you may have to up the cable csa. Also, you want to make sure you order the right length (correct length plus at least 10% min).
I'm currently considering option 5 of not having an EV. This has turned out to be much more complex and costly than I first realised.

You have given me an idea for another option, instead of going through the back of the loftspace, can I feed a cable out through the eaves?
If I can then I can run it across a flat roof extension to meet the gutter downpipe. This would be neater and make the run a little bit shorter and remove the need to try feeding 20 metres of cable through a hole in the wall whilst being 20ft up a ladder (I'm not a fan of heights), the run inside the house would be reduced from 15m to 7m, with the external run being about 35m instead of 28m ( Although I might need to bury about 2-3m under the patio, which I'm more than happy to do)
 

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PodPoint quoted me for my 75m-80m cable run from the meter to the garage. It was a fair quote and I had to provide the duct for the planned 15m that was to go under the drive and prepare the earthworks. All very convenient and I ended up ducting and trenching about 30m underground. The duct was to their specs (52mm I think) with rope ready for the pull. A few days before PodPoint were supposed to come and fit the charger and finish the installation, a heavy drum of ~85m x 10mm SWA on a pallet was forklifted off a truck ready for them.

Installation was completed on the assigned day and a new mini CU fitted below the meter and the PodPoint Solo fitted inside the garage. Tested and worked... except that after a few minutes the charge would fail and the light on the PodPoint went red. PodPoint, who was responsible for the installation sent a different technician out to check it and he immediately noted that the SWA cable was not the right one for the run and they had to come back, remove all the ~80m of 10mm SWA and the data cable and replace it with 16mm SWA. That was another 2 technicians for a whole day and replacing 80m of 10mm SWA with 16mm SWA and another 80m of data cable.

The moral of the story, make doubly sure that you have the right cable diameter for the run. If it's borderline, go for the thicker cable.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
PodPoint quoted me for my 75m-80m cable run from the meter to the garage..
I haven't looked at Podpoint as they ask for payment up front before they know what's involved. I didn't want to go with them only to find the costs spiral.
 

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So I've tried a couple of charge point installers and they wont touch it.

To explain,
The parking space is at the end of the garden, 35 metres from the consumer unit. There is no way through the house for the cable (full width extension on a terrace house) and so the cabling needs to go up into the attic, through the loft space, out through the back wall of the house and along the garden wall . The consumer unit is in a small space and has no spare spaces so a new unit would be required in addition to the existing one and the meter moving to fit it.

All have said it's too big a job for them, and particularly that they are not insured for working at height.

So the options are:
1. to get a separate electrician to do the work and then call them back once all the cabling and internals are done ( I'm waiting for a quote from my usual electrician)

2. Run the cabling myself and then get them back to connect up each end ( I'm being quoted £1200 for this)

3. Run the cabling and get an electrician to sort consumer unit andfit a commando outlet so I. Can use an ohme cable. And forget about the grant

4. or to make do with a granny charger off the shed power. We have half a dozen on street chargers within 100 yards so I may also try to use them when I need.

Really I'm looking for suggestions.
I've been told I need 6mm cabling with high tuff 3 core for the externals. Do I use 6mm twin and earth inside and how do I connect them safely when going through the back wall?
Should I be using some kind of conduit down the back wall?
Is there anything else to be aware of?


Thanks for any replies.
we can help with supply of the charge point with built in pen loss if that helps.

Datasheet for our classic 2.0 attached.
List price £250 ex vat - Estimated 1st shipments due End September.

If you were able to get a cable run to a small consumer unit next to our charger all you would need inside would be an RCBO.
 

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I'm currently considering option 5 of not having an EV. This has turned out to be much more complex and costly than I first realised.

You have given me an idea for another option, instead of going through the back of the loftspace, can I feed a cable out through the eaves?
If I can then I can run it across a flat roof extension to meet the gutter downpipe. This would be neater and make the run a little bit shorter and remove the need to try feeding 20 metres of cable through a hole in the wall whilst being 20ft up a ladder (I'm not a fan of heights), the run inside the house would be reduced from 15m to 7m, with the external run being about 35m instead of 28m ( Although I might need to bury about 2-3m under the patio, which I'm more than happy to do)
You can, but depends on what access is like? Id rod and rope it first to make sure you can get through it before ordering up the cable.
 

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If the shed already has power then how much would it be to run a 32/ 40 amp cable to the shed instead of what is being used now? Then you can add in a dedicated fused 16 amp spur off it for the charger. This way you get improved shed power and somewhere to charge the car. I'd think going for 16 amp would be less likely to cause problems than wanting a full 7kw/32 amp supply.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
The gap out the eaves was previously used to vent the bathroom extractor fan so it will be very easy.

To say this house has dodgy electrics is probably an understatement, the shed runs off the same ring as the kitchen (32amp) so replacing the cabling inside the house would be a difficult job and still not solve the problem of the lack of space on the consumer unit (6 outlets) , I did ask the electrician if he would add a 16amp commando socket to the shed electrics but he said no.
 

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It sounds like you really need to sort the house electrics out first. I certainly wouldn't risk a granny charger on the shed electrics as it is now.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
It sounds like you really need to sort the house electrics out first. I certainly wouldn't risk a granny charger on the shed electrics as it is now.
The annoying thing is British Gas fitted the consumer unit when they replaced our boiler about 15 years ago, much of the issues stem from this due to lack of slots.

I should've got this sorted when the extension and new kitchen went in two years ago, I just wasn't aware of them and assumed the car could be charged off the shed electrics.
 

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Years ago, I'd just replace like for like if doing a CU change, and it was pretty rare to get more than about 8 circuits in a normal domestic installation. Not so now, though. I always tend to allow around 25% or more greater capacity in the box than needed, as experience suggests that more and more homes need to have additional circuits added during the life of the wiring installation. On a related point, I'd never now fit any CU that wasn't an all-RCBO one, because I'm hearing of more and more cases where people are getting nuisance RCD trips, with no apparent faults in the installation. For this reason I fitted a 12 way all RCBO board to this 2 bedroom house back in 2014, and people back then reckoned I was going way OTT. Damned glad I did, though, as we have around 20 to 25 mA of earth leakage normally, despite there being absolutely no issues with IR (everything still maxes out at >199 MΩ on my MFT when tested).

The issue is caused by pretty much every fairly new appliance or bit of equipment that's connected to the installation having a small, completely normal, leakage current. May only be a mA or two, but it all adds up, and as soon as you get around 20 mA or so of normal earth leakage on one side of a split board, you're getting into nuisance trip territory, where turning on another appliance may just spike the leakage up to over the threshold to trip the RCD. A couple of years ago I invested in a sensitive earth leakage clamp meter, specifically to try and sort out why some people were having random trips, when their installations seemed fine when tested. Been interesting going around and measuring the leakage from different bits of kit. Plasma TVs (remember them?) used to be the main culprits. Now it seems to be pretty much anything that has a switched mode power supply. As pretty much every home appliance now has one of these, the cumulative leakage problem on older consumer units is only goinf to get worse.

On a more general level, the quality of many UK domestic electrical installations has been getting a great deal worse in recent years. The market for domestic stuff is so price-driven, from the big developers down, that there are corners being cut everywhere by those that have no pride in their work (or conscience). I got sent a link a day or so ago to a YouTube video showing the state of a newly rewired house. I've seen some pretty grim stuff over the years, but this lad's video even managed to shock me. How the hell the person that did this work can sleep at night I don't know. What's even worse is that this installation had had an EICR AFTER the rewire, and the defects were not picked up. Got to be the most shocking example of dangerous workmanship I think I've ever seen:

 

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So I've tried a couple of charge point installers and they wont touch it.

To explain,
The parking space is at the end of the garden, 35 metres from the consumer unit. There is no way through the house for the cable (full width extension on a terrace house) and so the cabling needs to go up into the attic, through the loft space, out through the back wall of the house and along the garden wall . The consumer unit is in a small space and has no spare spaces so a new unit would be required in addition to the existing one and the meter moving to fit it.

All have said it's too big a job for them, and particularly that they are not insured for working at height.

So the options are:
1. to get a separate electrician to do the work and then call them back once all the cabling and internals are done ( I'm waiting for a quote from my usual electrician)

2. Run the cabling myself and then get them back to connect up each end ( I'm being quoted £1200 for this)

3. Run the cabling and get an electrician to sort consumer unit andfit a commando outlet so I. Can use an ohme cable. And forget about the grant

4. or to make do with a granny charger off the shed power. We have half a dozen on street chargers within 100 yards so I may also try to use them when I need.

Really I'm looking for suggestions.
I've been told I need 6mm cabling with high tuff 3 core for the externals. Do I use 6mm twin and earth inside and how do I connect them safely when going through the back wall?
Should I be using some kind of conduit down the back wall?
Is there anything else to be aware of?


Thanks for any replies.
How handy are you?
Do you mind getting dirty?
Are you capable of neat and tidy work?
Do you have free time to spare in this project?

If the answer is yes to the above, get a friendly local sparky on side, plan the job together with you doing all the grunt cable pulling, fixing,, civils and running around. He can do overall configuration, testing, certification, signoff, notify the DNO.

A good place to start might be to get the isolation switch fitted, fuse upgraded and then get the DNO to run the cables from the meter to the isolation switch, or have your sparky on standby if they decline to do this bit of work....
 
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