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Soul EV & Tesla Model S
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Tesla not got back to me yet Re HP quote, but looking at yours, I think I might go go for HP instead.

Got quotes from Fleetdrive today, its a lot more expensive than yours!!

3+35mths 10k P.A. £1047.67inc VAT
Hi Skint. My quote was 6+35 so thats prob the difference. Also make sure its PCH not PCP as PCH is less. Was quoted in May. After Kevin's Tesla I would be inclined to agree with him.
 

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Discussion Starter · #42 · (Edited)
Hi Skint. My quote was 6+35 so thats prob the difference. Also make sure its PCH not PCP as PCH is less. Was quoted in May. After Kevin's Tesla I would be inclined to agree with him.
Hi Peter, its a PCH quote not PCP, regardless of 3 or 6+35, the total cost for your PCH is £40404, 18k p a.

My PCH, £39811, but only 10k p a.

Looking at your HP payment, if my calculation was any good, you would have paid around £5k interest over 4 years, and only around £2500 over 3 years, thats cheap!

Compare to my PCH, I would have paid nearly £10k interest!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #43 ·
strongly suggest you lease not buy... if you have any issues with car in future you just give it back :)
Hi Kevin, thanks for the advise.
I've just read your thread, and if I am being honest I probably wouldn't have noticed any battery degradation due to my short daily mileages, but nevertheless I am having second thought about whether Tesla will honor any warranty at all, despite supposed 8 year unlimited battery warranty
 

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Hi Kevin, thanks for the advise.
I've just read your thread, and if I am being honest I probably wouldn't have noticed any battery degradation due to my short daily mileages, but nevertheless I am having second thought about whether Tesla will honor any warranty at all, despite supposed 8 year unlimited battery warranty
It's probably worth asking Tesla's sales advisor some very detailed questions about what the Model S eight year 'unlimited' battery warranty actually covers, what the exclusions are, etc.

Of course, if you plan to hire rather than buy, then it's their car and battery and the maintenance costs would be their problem not yours.
 

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Best advice is to use the finance option that works for you. Lesson learned today is: if a company explicitly state that something is not covered in a warranty, then don't expect them to change their minds when you want them to.
 

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Hi Peter, its a PCH quote not PCP, regardless of 3 or 6+35, the total cost for your PCH is £40404, 18k p a.

My PCH, £39811, but only 10k p a.

Looking at your HP payment, if my calculation was any good, you would have paid around £5k interest over 4 years, and only around £2500 over 3 years, thats cheap!

Compare to my PCH, I would have paid nearly £10k interest!!
Out of interest, is it a fully maintained PCH ?
 

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Discussion Starter · #47 ·
Best advice is to use the finance option that works for you. Lesson learned today is: if a company explicitly state that something is not covered in a warranty, then don't expect them to change their minds when you want them to.
What I would like to know is what percentage of battery degradation would Tesla consider as unacceptable?
 

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Discussion Starter · #48 ·
Out of interest, is it a fully maintained PCH ?
Nope, this leads me to ask the next question, should I decided to go ahead and lease the Tesla, do I have to take it to Tesla and pay £550 for annual service?
 

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Discussion Starter · #49 ·
It's probably worth asking Tesla's sales advisor some very detailed questions about what the Model S eight year 'unlimited' battery warranty actually covers, what the exclusions are, etc.

Of course, if you plan to hire rather than buy, then it's their car and battery and the maintenance costs would be their problem not yours.
I sure will ask the questions what is included and whats not.
According to Tesla UK site, battery warranties cover damage from improper charging procedures and battery fire, even if the fire results from driver error.
This does lead prospective buyer such as myself the warranty is bullet proof, Although must admit, I would never have thought of battery degradation issues :oops:
 

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Nope, this leads me to ask the next question, should I decided to go ahead and lease the Tesla, do I have to take it to Tesla and pay £550 for annual service?
I would of thought so to keep the agreed residual. Arguable, but worth checking before you sign, or you need to factor another £1650 in to the price. Certainly on BCH we have had off hire penalties if services are excessively late.

On average we have a car go back every couple of months, and all our providers are getting much hotter on off hire charges now :(

Seems a lot of our CH providers are outsourcing to BCA to do the surveys, and now they use a tablet and a million point checklist when you off hire the car. Ultimately they then charge you dealer like repair bills for anything outside their definition of fair wear and tear, and then ship the car straight off to auction.

We just had a Touran go back and it cost us >£1200 in penalties, and TBH it was fairly tidy for a car of it's type used to cart young kids round, camping trips etc. etc.

Personally my last cars have gone back penalty free, but I'm in the minority.
 

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Discussion Starter · #51 ·
I would of thought so to keep the agreed residual. Arguable, but worth checking before you sign, or you need to factor another £1650 in to the price. Certainly on BCH we have had off hire penalties if services are excessively late.

On average we have a car go back every couple of months, and all our providers are getting much hotter on off hire charges now :(

Seems a lot of our CH providers are outsourcing to BCA to do the surveys, and now they use a tablet and a million point checklist when you off hire the car. Ultimately they then charge you dealer like repair bills for anything outside their definition of fair wear and tear, and then ship the car straight off to auction.

We just had a Touran go back and it cost us >£1200 in penalties, and TBH it was fairly tidy for a car of it's type used to cart young kids round, camping trips etc. etc.

Personally my last cars have gone back penalty free, but I'm in the minority.
My last car Mercedes C250, went back after 2 years, had a small scratch on one of alloys wheels, a tiny crack on the windscreen but repaired, did not had the second service(although I sent back 2 weeks before it was due) no penalty.:)
 

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I think others have said it, if you want it and can afford the payments then get it. You only live once. And you can't take the money with you.

At the moment Tesla Model S is still very exclusive so if you want to be different then it's really your only choice for high end, good range electric car?


I will be interested to see the depreciation figures over the next 3 years. As long as the battery tech holds up (can't see why it wouldn't) then the model s will still be in demand.

For lower repayments, you could get a Mercedes S500L AMG which will be far better built, great quality interior but it's still just a normal old school petrol car and it's not a Tesla.

Edd earlier on was talking sense, buy a 2nd hand leaf for your daily commutes, but with a twist to Edd's plan spend 20k on a crazy weekend car.


JimboJones.
 

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(This is going to be a long post)

All EV batteries degrade. The important thing is to warrant what is acceptable and what is not. Lacking the guidelines sucks, for lack of a better word, but it isn't fatal. It's just part of the equation.

We own our two Teslas and I am disturbed by Kevin Sharpe's Experience, but the published guidelines did say 30% in five years... All this means is caveat emptor.

Our Roadster was already five years old when we bought it, so, I would love to know what I get with the CPO Warranty or what we would get with purchase of the 400 mile upgrade batteries. How long will the car run up to 400 miles.

On Twitter, Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield (@aminorjourney), has postulated that battery packs are the consumable portion of EVs. Like it or not, she has a valid, and yet expensive point. However, unlike gasoline/petrol we don't have to replace every time we charge, only as long as the batteries are useful for us. In which case, it's eventually time to change.

Tesla's Roadster warranty had defined that in a binary situation, so, if one were to make the case to swap it out under Tesla's warranty, it can't be done based on degradation, it is because of a full battery/system failure. This sucks, unfortunately that is what was warranted.

Now the valid question for Model S owners (and guess what, I'm one of those too) is what about our battery packs? Well.. We'll need to see if degradation is covered. Otherwise, prepare to save for a replacement battery pack in the future. I have always recommended (often in the early years of my blog and in forums) that new EV owners put aside half of what their "fuel" savings aside for the future need to buy a replacement pack IF they do as I do with most of my cars (and that's keep them for a LONG while) (my hybrid garage has a 2001 BMW X5, my non-green, I have to get to the mountains for Fresh Snow car.)

Guess what, that advice still holds. I've lost five miles of rated range from 265 max charge to 260 max charge. Ideal miles lost 3 miles. And I'm less than a year AND over 20,000 miles. However, it must be noted that Tesla delivered the car with greater than 300 miles of ideal miles and I'm just around 299-300 miles ideal now. Yes, it's hotter in California than the UK and we do have active thermal management, but it's still the case that degradation happens. I still made it to Barstow, then Vegas on SCs. The car is still awesome, the Roadster is still fun, and Tesla is not perfect. I never thought they were (if BMW i didn't piss me off as much, I might still have picked up the i3 I ordered.)
 

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Following on from @ Dennis's point then that batteries are the consumables for EVs. Extending the analogy, if an ICE car's performance deteriorates due to a consumable, say the clutch, the dealer doesn't just say 'it's not covered under warranty so the car is performing according to expectations'. He says, 'yea the clutch needs replacing. We can do it for you and it will cost you £££'. That gives the owner some choice and control – whether to live with the impaired performance or restore it closer to 'as new'. Tesla should be quoting a cost, parts and labour, to replace brick 8. That gives them the opportunity to factor in good will to compensate for lost use and hassle, maybe a discount on labour charges?
 

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Battery degradation is not covered in the Model S limited warranty (battery), I've just checked.
Thanks for checking... I suspected that would be the case...

So, need to budget accordingly, which was the original plan when I got the car.
 

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Seems pretty clear...

"The North America Model S warranty doesn't cover range degradation. See page 35 and 36 (pages marked 33 and 34 due to other unumbered pages) of this PDF."
"You can rest easy knowing that Tesla’s state-of-the-art Battery is backed by this Battery Limited Warranty, which covers the repair or replacement of any malfunctioning or defective Battery"

Seems that is not quite true!

I would expect that any single cell that was behaving differently to the others in the same battery could/should be termed as defective or malfunctioning...

I think Tesla have not done themselves any favours by not specifying what is expected and acceptable, and what is exceptional and a warranty failure, when it comes to degradation, as other manufacturers have done.

I think its pretty well known and accepted by manufacturers and buyers that batteries degrade, I think it's also pretty well known that some cell failure modes present as rapid degradation (far above and beyond the normal level), there does need to be a way to single out these failures from normal degradation and this is where I see Tesla as having failed.
 
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