Speak EV - Electric Car Forums banner

1 - 20 of 30 Posts

·
Registered
Renault Zoe, ZE40 Q90
Joined
·
99 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Yesterday I completed a journey which was not the most comfortable!
I had to make a trip which was around 180 round trip, so I knew I would have to 'public charge' at some point.
Journey was majority motorway/ A Roads.
I set off with a range indicated 145 miles, didn't hang about on the way there - 68mph on motorway and around 55mph on the A roads. Got to destination with 29% and 44 miles remaining.
Found a rapid 43kw pod point at a nearby Lidl.
Charged for 35 minutes, 17kwh added at a cost of £3.91.
72% charge with range of 109 miles - sat nav to home was 85 miles, so I thought the 25 miles or so 'contingency' would be plenty.
Set off home and the cruise was at 60mph for pretty much the entire journey and I never went above that speed. Cabin temp set at 21, with AC off.
I was keeping a close eye on the range & distance to go and could see my contingency slowly disappearing.
I arrived home with 9 miles of range and the car telling me to 'consider ECO options'.
Summary -
Pod Point charge was simple and efficient
Rest of the journey was not good, just as well I didn't have the heater/AC on and it wasn't colder outside (last night was 10 degrees).
Not something I will be planning on doing again.
 

·
Registered
Renault Zoe 50 GT Line 135 CCS
Joined
·
571 Posts
You had a whole 9 miles of range left! That's plenty.

Also it was immensely windy in the afternoon which can eat up range. Do 64 mph on the way there.

It's a learning experience for next time. BTW, which car? Q90?
 

·
Registered
Renault Zoe, ZE40 Q90
Joined
·
99 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
You had a whole 9 miles of range left! That's plenty.

Also it was immensely windy in the afternoon which can eat up range. Do 64 mph on the way there.

It's a learning experience for next time. BTW, which car? Q90?
I get the whole "drive a few mph slower" but why?
My old car (Insignia) ranged between 500-600 miles on a tank, if I drove everywhere at 60, that range would probably have increased by 100 miles or more?
Yes ZE40 Q90
 

·
Registered
Renault Zoe 50
Joined
·
17,730 Posts
I get the whole "drive a few mph slower" but why?
My old car (Insignia) ranged between 500-600 miles on a tank, if I drove everywhere at 60, that range would probably have increased by 100 miles or more?
Yes ZE40 Q90
You probably never measured it that closely on the ICE. Because the range was so large.

It’s more noticeable on an EV when you are at the limit of range and using the heater.
 

·
Registered
Renault Zoe, ZE40 Q90
Joined
·
99 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
You probably never measured it that closely on the ICE. Because the range was so large.

It’s more noticeable on an EV when you are at the limit of range and using the heater.
You are probably correct, I'm just glad I had the 43kw rapid charge available and not just a 7kw 🙈
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,017 Posts
I get the whole "drive a few mph slower" but why?
Air resistance is the square of velocity. Yes, your insignia would have achieved a better mpg at 60. 63mph is a sweetspot for the ZE40. If it’s wet/windy your range will be affected more noticeably in an EV. Remember a fully charged battery in your Zoe has the energy of only around 4 litres of petrol - shows how ridiculously inefficient ICE cars are, but factors that effect EV efficiency are therefore much more noticeable.
 

·
Registered
Renault Zoe, ZE40 Q90
Joined
·
99 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Air resistance is the square of velocity. Yes, your insignia would have achieved a better mpg at 60. 63mph is a sweetspot for the ZE40. If it’s wet/windy your range will be affected more noticeably in an EV. Remember a fully charged battery in your Zoe has the energy of only around 4 litres of petrol - shows how ridiculously inefficient ICE cars are, but factors that effect EV efficiency are therefore much more noticeable.
Wow - now that is a stat!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,821 Posts
It is unfair to compare the performance of a shopping car with that of a repmobile. At any particular price point for a new car EVs are still considerably more than the equivalent ICE, and their range is currently considerably less. The only BEV equivalent of an Insignia is an M3, and even then its range is sub 300 miles rather than 600+. If that is a "regular" journey with such a small break in the middle (as opposed to say a commute or visit to somewhere where you will spend the majority of the day) then there is not currently, based on current purchase price alone, an equivalent BEV to a secondhand ICE such as an Insignia etc. for making that journey. Things will change over time but we are not there yet. It is of no comfort to you that a CCS equipped ZE50 would have had no issues with the journey, if a working Rapid had been conveniently available at your halfway point.
Longer term ICE will be priced off of the roads as the true cost of their emissions are taken into account, and in the short term it is likely that we'll have to accept that such journeys become less convenient.
 

·
Registered
Renault Zoe, ZE40 Q90
Joined
·
99 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
It is unfair to compare the performance of a shopping car with that of a repmobile. At any particular price point for a new car EVs are still considerably more than the equivalent ICE, and their range is currently considerably less. The only BEV equivalent of an Insignia is an M3, and even then its range is sub 300 miles rather than 600+. If that is a "regular" journey with such a small break in the middle (as opposed to say a commute or visit to somewhere where you will spend the majority of the day) then there is not currently, based on current purchase price alone, an equivalent BEV to a secondhand ICE such as an Insignia etc. for making that journey. Things will change over time but we are not there yet. It is of no comfort to you that a CCS equipped ZE50 would have had no issues with the journey, if a working Rapid had been conveniently available at your halfway point.
Longer term ICE will be priced off of the roads as the true cost of their emissions are taken into account, and in the short term it is likely that we'll have to accept that such journeys become less convenient.
The Zoe is my replacement for the repmobile!
I argued the point when told I was getting the ZE40, that the ZE50 would be more suitable, however the ZE40 was the car available to me (was obviously sat around for a while as registered in Dec '19 and only delivered to me in Aug '20)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,821 Posts
Sadly the bean counters have got one over on you. Would you have accepted a Clio with a 3 gallon fuel tank and a filler that only allowed refilling in one hour as a replacement for the Insignia? That is what you have with the ZE40 Q90, but you are reducing your emissions and saving tax.
Ignoring how you feel about it, if that was a work trip and is a regular occurrence has your employer factored in the reduction in your efficiency or do they just expect you to suck up the extra hours? I doubt that they have fitted speed limiters to the Accountants cars to reduce their fuel cost / emissions.
 

·
Premium Member
2020 Corsa E
Joined
·
7,194 Posts
Charge to 80% next time :) Don't turn off heating etc. If this is a work trip it's unacceptable to be cold.

If this is going to be a regular trip then see if there is any destination charging near where you are to top it up even more while you are there. If you can be at 100% for both ways without too much hassle then it makes it a lot easier. Winter will reduce it further but it would be more sensible to cruise at 60 anyway.

The ZE50 is far better suited and you can get it with CCS too.

Also worth checking tyre pressures. Zoe seems to do better at 38 psi than 36 psi.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,821 Posts
Hence the use of "heat pumps" in some cars - they cut the usage to around 25% hence 1kW per hour. This isn't point scoring, but when did Renault start fitting them to the Zoe - I recall it was with the ZE50 but could be wrong.

I found this in a Renault brochure where they include a trip like yours but in a ZE50 and with some very dodgy "man Maths*" to get a 40 mile cushion at the end of the journey. * Man Maths on the basis that 30 minutes on a 50kW CCS appears to give 30kWh of charge rather than 25kWh, and the extra 5kWh is worth 15 miles which is a significant part of the 40 mile cushion. If they only allowed for say 20kWh in that time the cushion would only be 10 miles which is what you experienced.

135799
 

·
Premium Member
2020 Corsa E
Joined
·
7,194 Posts
Well it's a bit interesting that the summer range at 100% is 233 miles but winter is 150!!! That's a hell of a drop.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,821 Posts
Glad to hear that Tesla are catching up! :p So the heating draw should be a lot less than 3-4kW after the initial peak in a Zoe.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,821 Posts
Well it's a bit interesting that the summer range at 100% is 233 miles but winter is 150!!! That's a hell of a drop.
It is just an example, but if it were cold and wet (why are they going to the coast?) then a 1/3rd reduction is believable with the heating on.
 

·
Registered
MG EZS 2020
Joined
·
4,366 Posts
This isn't point scoring, but when did Renault start fitting them to the Zoe - I recall it was with the ZE50 but could be wrong.
Zoe has always been fitted with a heat pump. It was one of the pluses in making my choices for my first EV.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
139 Posts
I've bought my Zoe R90 41kW from a dealer 121 miles away from home. Without any knowledge how to drive EV properly I drove home like I was driving my ICE cars for years...on arrival at home I had 22 miles range left. It was 8C and never stopped raining all day. So by reading here and educating myself I've realised that I was doing everything wrong on my way home. However, the car exceeded my expectation by a mile. I feel your pain but it is something you have to bring up with your company. Regarding the car itself, I personally cannot believe that took me so long before making the switch from ICE to EV.....but that's life, we are learning every day.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,017 Posts
Glad to hear that Tesla are catching up! :p So the heating draw should be a lot less than 3-4kW after the initial peak in a Zoe.
Zoe has always had a heat pump, but it also has a PTC heater to top up when below 5oC, for the initial cabin heating. What you find is that when its very cold, the Zoe chucks out lots of heat very quickly. When sitting at traffic lights, you can see the instant energy use shows at up to 3kW. You can also feel strong vibrations though the wheel as the heat pump goes full beans. This energy draw reduces as the cabin warms up and the heat pump is all that is used to keep the cabin warm. It does explain why lots of short trips in winter can be an absolute killer of range though.
 
1 - 20 of 30 Posts
Top