I was just wondering if we knew what kind of socket the European spec Model 3’s are going to get ?
Presumably it’ll have a standard Type 2 socket which will allow 3 phase AC (upto what power? - 32a per phase would be nice) and DC supercharging. But do we know any more than this ?
To my knowledge the Model S CHADeMO adapter doesn’t work with the US Model 3s. Is there a Model 3 CHADeMO adapter in the works or can Tesla flash existing adapters ( or cars) to make them work on the Model 3 ?
And given the relative ascendency of CCS in Europe it would be nice if that were an option.. especially given the growth of charging networks looking to install multiple groups of units providing >50kW of power [wonder where they got that idea from ]. Interestingly the charge flap seems to be big enough to house a CCS socket without trouble.
Indeed, I’m surprised this stuff isnt yet clearer given how close we are to the EU launch and the fact that some Model 3s have been officially shown on this side of the pond...
I'll have some of that as well, it would be bizarre if it didn't have a CCS as they would get the best of both worlds, I expect to see a lot more CCS chargers over the next few years, Instavolt alone have a contract with Chargepoint to supply quite a few.
I think we will see Instavolt installing some at MSAs next year, in fact I'll put money on that too
22kW AC public charging is getting very common in some EU countries and starting to improve in UK, so would be nice. 11kW is almost certain as many places (our home in Spain!) can't accommodate 32A single phase.
Yes they are a member of CharIN who set the CCS charging standards, but so are Toyota who have "self charging" EVs It doesn't mean the Model 3 will have CCS, but Hopefully it will.
At the moment, Tesla drivers in large parts of Scotland depend on publicly funded CPS Chademo. Just check out Plugshare. Personal experience at chargers confirms the same.
Yes, there is a roll out plan as we know. I check on planning applications from time to time - no news there I'm afraid. Would hope to see a large expansion in 2019 ready for Model 3.
The principle of the Supercharger is to enable long distance travel, like it or not we aren’t going to see an extensive Supercharger network covering Scotland as the population density and the traffic may not warrant.
They are missing Harthill and a couple of other places that might make sense, Stranraer for Ferries would be a good one. Crianlarich to cover into the west, I think they should stick one at John O Groats (and also Lands End) just for the PR!
The principle of the Supercharger is to enable long distance travel, like it or not we aren’t going to see an extensive Supercharger network covering Scotland as the population density and the traffic may not warrant.
Which is precisely why the Model 3 needs to support CCS. Thanks for helping my argument.
If it doesn't, it will be a backwards step in usability from the Model S with Chademo adapter, and it's very likely the Chademo adapter will never be compatible with the Model 3.
Aberdeen is 3rd largest city yet nearest Supercharger is 65 miles away: that is Not good coverage. Would certainly sway me if was considering say new Korean versus Tesla.
Not an real issue for anyone living in Aberdeen as superchargers are for travel and all Tesla cars have more then enough range to get that far out of Aberdeen with a overnight charge.
The problem is that it will take a few years before most hotels and B&B offer overnight charging, hence CCS surport is needed for holidays.
I don't know why the CHAdeMO adapter has not yet been released for the model 3, it makes me think the Tesla is "upto something" that they have not yet told us.
From talking to people at Tesla, north Scotland has the same problem as Norfolk (which I was very selfishly more interested in!) - a lack of capacity in the electricity network.
Scotland - even though it has a large 275kv network from the various wind farms that heads south - does not have a very good local 11/33kv distribution network feeding major towns where you might want superchargers to be. Simply, there isn't capacity to feed 8x or more superchargers without dragging the local voltage down.
Fort William & Aberdeen have 132kv+ feeds, so fine, but places like John o'Groats only have an 11kv feed. So probably insufficient for more than 2 superchargers.
Fort William & Aberdeen have 132kv+ feeds, so fine, but places like John o'Groats only have an 11kv feed. So probably insufficient for more than 2 superchargers.
I think the main demand in the North and West is likely to be from visitors - in the summer there are a lot of people driving and touring, this is a big destination for Europeans in particular. So I don't think Biffa's correct in saying that the population doesn't warrant it. Even pairs of superchargers situated in smaller towns like Kyle, Ullapool, Durness, Thurso, while not ideal, would still make touring practical - and charging is likely to be at the end of the day's leg where people could tend to be flexible in waiting, more than someone en route on the motorway network may be.
DBMandrake, I think the Dundee SuC is not because of Dundee's population, I think it's a convenient location with good grid supply that is a sensible distance between the Abington SuC and Aberdeen, thinking in terms of long-distance network. Similarly Aviemore makes sense as somewhere with power that extends the network a hop northward towards Inverness after Edinburgh or Abington SuCs.
In that vein, I'd expect there could be one on the West side of Glasgow to enable A82 northward traffic. I'd think Oban more likely than Crianlarich or Tyndrum, as I would expect it has a good power supply and would extend the network for Kintyre and islands traffic in the same way that Fort William will be a great hub for further north.
Having said all that, I agree that CCS would be great and makes a lot of sense. Apart from anything else it will reduce demand on the Supercharger network, which will be excellent for the remote fringes where it's hard to power many stalls.
I've used the Valencia SuC more than my local one if that counts (damn those palm trees)
As for CCS, I'm putting my money on M3 having it most definitely, the silence on Chademo for M3 is agreeably just as suspicious at this point.
The bigger question is how this is going to be done with the S & X once that is revealed, the Chinese flap is not so elegant but quite a probable future and when that happens what does it mean retrofit wise (SuC and/or car), 2nd hand prices, etc. - you're right - I would stay silent for now if I was Tesla
They can't easily add CCS to the Model 3 in USA so supporting the CHAdeMO adapter there makes a lot of sense, especially with the Electrify America charging network now starting to roll out.
The larger socket space could be for the China GB/T socket so there is a risk we will be disappointed.
I agree it would be fab in we could use both CCS and SC, but not sure would pay extra for CCS. Once the North Wales SC is in place we really don't need CCS for any journeys, it would just be a convenience.
Aberdeen is 3rd largest city yet nearest Supercharger is 65 miles away: that is Not good coverage. Would certainly sway me if was considering say new Korean versus Tesla.
Nah, as a resident of Aberdeen I can confirm that current Supercharger coverage is perfect for travelling south or west if you're passing Aviemore. There are also a fair number of public destination chargers before you need to look at rapid chargers. Having CHAdeMO access does open up a lot more options though.
Yes the number has increased in the last couple of years, but still nothing further north or east of Aviemore, which is a long way from the next nearest of Aberdeen and Dundee. The supercharger coverage in Scotland is still minimal compared to the pervasive coverage of Charge Place Scotland, and unlike EH, all CPS rapids have working CCS.
If I was travelling around north/east of Aviemore on holiday I would not want to be driving back to Aviemore all the time to charge, nor sit on 11kW AC for hours when I could use any of the many CPS rapids and charge 4 times faster.
It would be really stupid and disappointing of Tesla not to support CCS or the Chademo adaptor in the Model 3.
I just did exactly this - a week based in Inverness and unable to charge where I was staying. In this instance the local rapid charger network was invaluable: there was no way I wanted to do a round trip to Aviemore every couple of days. This is partly because Inverness has very few fast chargers however. A decent network of 3-phase type 2 (up to 22kW) chargers at car parks serving local shops and cafes would have made a huge difference.
In general I agree that, as things stand, for the Model 3 to be viable in Scotland (and other UK blackspots like Norfolk and Wales) it will need some kind of 3rd party rapid charge capability. That said a well distributed network of 22kW a.c. chargers would, in my opinion, be almost as useful and I'd imagine cost much less to install. I can only charge at 11 kW max and that still means a handy 30 mile top-up in an hour.
Nah, as a resident of Aberdeen I can confirm that current Supercharger coverage is perfect for travelling south or west if you're passing Aviemore. There are also a fair number of public destination chargers before you need to look at rapid chargers. Having CHAdeMO access does open up a lot more options though.
I just did exactly this - a week based in Inverness and unable to charge where I was staying. In this instance the local rapid charger network was invaluable: there was no way I wanted to do a round trip to Aviemore every couple of days. This is partly because Inverness has very few fast chargers however. A decent network of 3-phase type 2 (up to 22kW) chargers at car parks serving local shops and cafes would have made a huge difference.
In general I agree that, as things stand, for the Model 3 to be viable in Scotland (and other UK blackspots like Norfolk and Wales) it will need some kind of 3rd party rapid charge capability. That said a well distributed network of 22kW a.c. chargers would, in my opinion, be almost as useful and I'd imagine cost much less to install. I can only charge at 11 kW max and that still means a handy 30 mile top-up in an hour.
I don't think it's yet definitive, but not very hopeful. The Type 2 socket is placed high enough in the charge port area that it could conceivably be a CCS socket - just with the DC pins blanked off by a cover - the detail in the photo isn't good enough to see any detail around the socket.
The full version of that photo has enough detail to show there are no blanked off CCS DC pins. However all is not lost. It was always a possibility that CCS would be an option at additional cost - not everyone needs it, particularly in areas of Europe where there is good SC provision.
Wow, super disappointing if this pans out in the released model.
A Model 3 with CCS support would have had exceptionally versatile charging (AC 11kW ?, CCS 120kW?, Supercharger 120kW) but without CCS the versatility is lost and in some situations it would be less usable than say a Kona.
Supercharger fans keep forgetting that aside from Scotland with its limited number of Superchargers there are several countries in continental Europe without a single Supercharger neighbored by countries that do have them, and that it's very common for drivers to drive between countries within the EU in the course of business or pleasure.
Something like a Kona using 175kW CCS chargers is going to be more usable in those inter-country situations if the Model 3 doesn't get CCS, and that would be disappointing.
Maybe the large flap was only to accommodate the Chinese market with its custom charging standards...
If it doesn't get a CCS socket, will we see a CCS adapter perhaps ? Lost opportunity to build it in if they did go the adapter route though...
Supercharger fans keep forgetting that aside from Scotland with its limited number of Superchargers there are several countries in continental Europe without a single Supercharger
CCS2 includes a full auth and payment spec. But Tesla use the car to authorise the charge anyway so its not a massive problem, if the car doesn't send the right things nowt will happen.
With CCS built in I think it's unlikely. Unless the current Model S/X Chademo adapter will work with it.
But there's no reason to believe it will as the US Model 3 still doesn't support the US Chademo adapter and it would be yet more contactor complexity in the car to implement. So my bet is it won't happen and they'll just bank on CCS deployment catching up and overtaking Chademo in the next few years, which it almost certainly will.
Agreed. I was wondering where the second cable would go, since the one that's already there hangs down one side and curves back up the other side taking up all the available space... putting them side by side would be kinda clunky.
CCS is great news, the M3 is going to be so tempting when its here
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