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In the last two years I have had 2 EVSE installs. One by ChargedEV a 7kW Rolec and one by Chargemaster also 7kW. Both points are out side and both cars charge outside, neither has an earth rod. My house is on the PME system. I have been issued install certs for both installations.

If there were a requirement to fit one, they would have done so.
 

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In the last two years I have had 2 EVSE installs. One by ChargedEV a 7kW Rolec and one by Chargemaster also 7kW. Both points are out side and both cars charge outside, neither has an earth rod. My house is on the PME system. I have been issued install certs for both installations.

If there were a requirement to fit one, they would have done so.
Since I've owned EVs I have had 3 EVSE installs. One by Chargemaster which caught fire about three months after it was installed, one by another installer who fitted a point without any external RCD protection at all, and one by a third installer who as far as I can tell made up the earth impedance figures on the test certificate (the site had all TT earthing but the figures on the test sheet were less than 1 Ohm).

If there were a requirement to use RCDs, to actually test the earth impedance, or to have the chargepoint not catch fire, these people would have done so.
 

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If there were a requirement to fit one, they would have done so.
Unfortunately, there IS such a requirement.

If either of these were OLEV-supported, there's a cast-iron requirement to do so, since it is a condition of the OLEV grant that they follow the Code of Practice for EV Charging Equipment Installation.

If not, then they should at least have been following BS7671 wiring regulations (per your certificates), and that prohbibits the use of the PME earth for an outdoor chargepoint, albeit with the get-out that this can be ignored if the alternatives are not "reasonably practicable". The Code of Practice is effectively giving guidance on what should be considered "reasonably practicable". And in any event the get-out has been removed from the latest edition regulations (coming into effect at the end of this year).
 

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Well I finally got round to swapping the 4mm t&e for 10mm, I forgot to disconnect the earth from the ccu.
A job for the weekend :)
 

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Unfortunately, there IS such a requirement.

If either of these were OLEV-supported, there's a cast-iron requirement to do so, since it is a condition of the OLEV grant that they follow the Code of Practice for EV Charging Equipment Installation.

If not, then they should at least have been following BS7671 wiring regulations (per your certificates), and that prohbibits the use of the PME earth for an outdoor chargepoint, albeit with the get-out that this can be ignored if the alternatives are not "reasonably practicable". The Code of Practice is effectively giving guidance on what should be considered "reasonably practicable". And in any event the get-out has been removed from the latest edition regulations (coming into effect at the end of this year).
Then that's what they did then. There is no earth rod on both of the evse. There could have been as one evse was installed on a lawn with no tarmac or concrete.

FWIW they both tested the earthing system and said it was fine. I am leaving it as is though.
 

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I do sometimes wonder how much of a grasp some electricians actually have of the work they're carrying out. I suspect many of them have just sort of learned/memorised a sequence of steps to perform task X and just repeat them over and over without actually understanding whats going on.

At an old rented house there was a few electrical issues that i brought up with the landlord. Primarily there was an MICC cable supplying the garage, which was terminated in an exposed chock-block, with no proper MICC gland. He got an electrician out, who inspected the system and decided the cable to the garage needed replaced, and after further investigation, realised the garage supply was tacked onto the fuse for the downstairs ring main in an ancient wylex rewireable board. He proposed a new consumer unit as well, which i was pleased about, he appeared to want to fix it properly.

Then he started work, and the more he did the more i begun to question what was going on. Some examples include the downstairs ring main failing its insulation resistance test, he then split the ring at a random point and retested, one leg passed and one leg failed. At which point he shrugged and said "the RCD is staying in, it must just be an appliance thats still plugged in". He then continued the install and left it as it was. Later it transpired the downstairs ring main was a rats nest of damp junction boxes under the floor which would get wet when it rained... There was a pair of double sockets in the cupboard near the consumer unit, which were originally just spurred off the ring main (a spur off a spur isnt allowed). He left them as a spur rather than taking the extra 5 minutes to just loop the ring thru, there was plenty slack cable too, it would have been trivial to fix. The lighting circuits were all unearthed, which was typical of 60's wiring, and not an issue in of itself, but the light fitings in four of the rooms were class 1, which he discovered then ignored. He also supplied the garage from a MCB in the consumer unit, despite the garage having its own consumer unit with RCD, and me even pointing out that was bad practice.

Unfortunately, as i wasnt paying him, there wasnt really much i could do. I changed the light fittings myself for plastic ones, and eventually discovered the dodgy ground floor wiring a few months later when winter came round and the RCD did start tripping.
 

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I still don't really understand the issue here and I've changed my mind several times as I read more about it. Obviously I know the worry of the broken PEN conductor lifting the CPC conductor to full mains voltage. But where does the shock hazard come from in terms of an EV? Isn't the EV a class 2 device? The bodywork of the car is connected to the negative terminal of the 12V battery, just like any other car.

Surely the negative terminal of the battery doesn't then get connected to the CPC supplied by the EVSE?

Under what fault condition is the bodywork of the car connected to anything other than the 12V battery?
 

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Unfortunately, there IS such a requirement.

If either of these were OLEV-supported, there's a cast-iron requirement to do so, since it is a condition of the OLEV grant that they follow the Code of Practice for EV Charging Equipment Installation.
Sorry I forgot to confirm that both were fitted under the OLEV scheme. One was fitted when I bought a second hand Leaf (ChargedEV) at a price of £300 and the second was free with a Zoe purchase (chargemaster) also via the grant.

Both look good installs, both came with certs, shame they don't comply - oh the irony of it all - lol. Looks like all the certs are good for is to wipe my arse on - lol.
 

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Surely the negative terminal of the battery doesn't then get connected to the CPC supplied by the EVSE?
The chassis of the car does - it's effectively a class-1 appliance. If EVs had been built to be class-2, then all of this bother would be avoided.

It's also to some extent a problem that's more significant in the UK than elsewhere: many places on the continent have predominantly 3-phase appliances for larger loads (eg. Germany), or similarly in the USA with split-phase and larger loads not using the neutral, or France with widespread use of TT earthing.
 

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I have read the various threads on this subject over the years and watched as the topic is teased out and examined from all angles. It would seem to me, after digesting the gist of the many different suggestions, that the overall aim is to cover the vague possibility of a fault elsewhere in your street causing your car's body to be live at 240v AC when plugged in. And then waiting in that situation, without tripping any house system, for you to touch the car's door handle and create a circuit to ground through your body. The witchcraft that causes this is well outside my own knowledge but many people who do understand this claim that it is rare but not unknown.
 

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And then waiting in that situation, without tripping any house system
One of the problems is there is no house system to trip that can provide protection - the fault means that your earth is now at 240V, and none of the existing protective systems will disconnect the earth (for what would normally be a perfectly understandable reason).
 

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For me its not the potential thats the issue, as said rather rare. Its the fact that well known and otherwise trusted companies are not doing the job right yet getting top whack for doing it.
 

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Discussion Starter #135
For me its not the potential thats the issue, as said rather rare. Its the fact that well known and otherwise trusted companies are not doing the job right yet getting top whack for doing it.
You can call them out on this and get them out to rectify the situation. Some on here have done so.
 

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I feel there is a fun story here, which should be told.
Well I'm sure you won't be surprised to hear there was a small degree of artistic licence involved...

CM always fit their units with a separate junction box, and the person who installed mine obviously did such a terrible job in there (with a bit of undersized choc block I suspect) that the result after about 3 months was this:

View attachment 101882
 

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Well I'm sure you won't be surprised to hear there was a small degree of artistic licence involved...

CM always fit their units with a separate junction box, and the person who installed mine obviously did such a terrible job in there (with a bit of undersized choc block I suspect) that the result after about 3 months was this:

View attachment 101882
Melty and brown but not the full Hindenberg.
 
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