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The prices of gasoline and oil are cheap these days. Since most of the major oil companies are operating at a loss and paying more than 100% of profits in dividends, it makes me wonder what the game is that they are playing? Perhaps they wish to discourage us from buying fuel efficient vehicles such as hybrids, PEV or, BEV. Perhaps they are waging economic warfare on Russia, OPEC, and every small oil producer that competes with the oil giants. Perhaps this is a generous gift to all mankind? Perhaps not! It is hard to understand why any huge corporation would continue to operate at a loss unless the end game puts them in control of a larger share of oil producing territories (a monopoly.)
I wonder if the current situation is hurting the sales of EV around the world. I wonder what will happen when the game ends. The petroleum industry does not exist to supply us with cheap oil produced at a loss. The price of oil is regulated by more than just supply and demand. By supply I mean the amount that is held in the Earth's crust. The amount held in storage tanks has created an oil glut and it would seem that gasoline is in greater supply than water or air. I am certain that the current situation will not last much longer. I would not let the current price of gas influence my decision to purchase an EV. Would you?
 

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£1.14p a liter is not cheap, for me its not about price at all, i was sad when the zoe went back and i miss it even tho it was a pain, but i don't miss the range tho, I need a car that will do 200 miles at 70mph.
 

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Some interesting points, my comments would be :

I think most people on here are EV enthusiasts for either environmental reasons or because they like the technology and want to be at the vangard of a new technology, not to save money - I think that covers most current EV owners apart from the PHEV tax-dodgers. I think mainstream car buyers are influenced by pump prices but as EV's are not yet mainstream its not a huge factor.

The oil companies are not in control of the oil price or production levels, obviously, and in general they are not part of a conspiracy against EV's - they don't currently see them as a medium-term threat globally as their predictions suggest continued rising oil demand. I think you might be crediting them with more sophistication than they have, they have responded to the recent oil crash by massively cutting investment and people to get their costs down and are basically in survival mode. Most of the oil majors will be profitable / break even at around $50-60.

The story on why they are borrowing to maintain dividend payments is, again in my view influenced by two things :
1. Huge political pressure from banks, governments and investment funds as pensions have no other place to find any income e.g. 0% interest on savings, sluggish economy
2. Executive pay and bonuses is generally linked to share price, EPS and a few other related economic metrics so they use share buy-backs and borrow money to pay dividends in a very cynical way to maintain their own bonuses

Regarding future oil prices, world demand continues to rise and the industry investment is very low levels so at some point demand > supply - it's just a question of when. At this point the oil price will rise but will probably be capped at the point at which all the shale producers are economic in the US which as far as I know is around $80-100 / bbl.

My feeling is that by the time we have the next oil boom we will have EV's which are 200m range genuine alternatives from established car makers and the normo's won't be frightened of them any more, cue a massive increase demand but only in a few countries like EU, US. I think late 2017 / 2018 :)

Don't forget, in a lot of continents people hardly know EV's exist - here in Africa nobody has ever seen an electric car and there is zero infrastructure to support them, my African colleagues laugh when I tell them about my Tesla, they think its silly. I suspect 80% of the world is still in the same place.

Enjoyed your questions, and the opportunity to spout a load of opinionated nonsense in response :cool:

J
 

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This is a bit like asking "Does the price of straw influence your decision to buy a petrol powered car?"

I don't care what the price of oil does, I don't want another petrol car, ever.
 

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Yes it was. When we bought our Ampera four years ago the cost of fuel which was £1.40 per litre was a factor was in justifying the high cost of the car. At these prices it seemed a good investment. If only I had hindsight with the price of the car and fuel prices being reduced I may not have made that decision. But then I would have missed 4 years of driving an EV. I had also assumed that prices would rise further at the time.
 

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It's interesting, no doubt genuine responses here that its definitely a 'factor', but might we be kidding ourselves somewhat?

Unless you are doing squillions of miles, even taking into account the costs of fuel vs electricity do EV's make purely economic sense vs an equivalent and suitably economic ICE? I am guessing not.

I know a Tesla is not a good example of this, mine will never make economic sense vs the equivalent Jag or BMW (but I didn't buy it for this reason anyway) and I am fine with that.

In the case of something like a Leaf vs say the equivalent diesel Golf which can average 50 mpg - is fuel cost even an argument for an EV? Especially if you factor in depreciation its probably dubious.

J
 

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It was when I used to do a 60 mile commute, before the EV car I was putting nearly £100 of diesel in the car a week, with the EV this dropped to under £7 a day, when you add those savings to the fact that it defrosted itself and warmed up the interior ready for me to just jump in and drive off is very compelling.

That is 60miles there and 60 miles back.:)
 

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£1.14p a liter is not cheap, for me its not about price at all, i was sad when the zoe went back and i miss it even tho it was a pain, but i don't miss the range tho, I need a car that will do 200 miles at 70mph.
Is that the Rx8s maximum oil top up range? or do you genuinely get 13mpg? My mate said 30mpg was difficult in his.

It was when I used to do a 60 mile commute, before the EV car I was putting nearly £100 of diesel in the car a week, with the EV this dropped to under £7 a day, when you add those savings to the fact that it defrosted itself and warmed up the interior ready for me to just jump in and drive off is very compelling.
Hope that was 60miles each way! Either thar or you had a fuel leak that would have given the Exon Valdez a run for its money lol

I bought an EV because it was cheaper than its ICE equivalent. I could plan my monthly costs exactly. it drove nicely. Range is the only scanner.
 

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Price of fuel can do anything. I have an EV and a gas guzzler. If fuel is cheaper I'll do a few more long trips in the gas guzzler. If it rises I won't.

The cost of the kia is what I'd spend on running the other car for an extra 8000 miles pa including fuel and likely repairs. So the car is basically free apart from the cost of the electric. The cost is also roughly what I'd have spent on buying a second cheapish petrol car outright and running that over the same three years. Either way it's into no brainer territory.

I have always done a fairly low mileage and lived close to work so commuting costs have never been an issue. I used to walk to work when I was close enough. It didn't matter if I had a mental car that did 20 mpg.

I work from home now so I have more time for leisure trips so I can take whichever car is best suited.

Price of fuel when I first had a car was 70p a litre I think. Once it hit £1 a litre I think most people ever gave up thinking fuel would be cheap again.
 

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Price of fuel when I first had a car was 70p a litre I think. Once it hit £1 a litre I think most people ever gave up thinking fuel would be cheap again.
The 'price ' of petrol has steadily fallen for the last 40 years, my first car cost me 1hr 23 minutes work per gallon. Now on National min wage it would take less than an hour.
I would suggest that the current drop in world prices is a realisation by petrol companies that they are sitting on a vast asset that will become devalued in the near future of Global Climate change. Better to sell today at a low price than be unable to sell it at all in a few years time. Saudi Arabia is leading the 'firesale', whilst investinh heavily in renewable energy schemes.

As for affecting my purchase of an EV. no effect at all, it was an impulse buy.
 

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There is a broader fascinating topic here. Why do people buy EVs & why do they buy specific EVs.
I have been surprised that the general EV community do not seem to mind paying above the odds for almost everything. Probably because they have to... & do not really have a choice. I think the broad EV category can be further broken down.

TESLA OWNERS.
Definitely not price sensitive or influenced by petrol prices. I would liken a Tesla owner to Apple i phone buyers. Willing to wait in line in the rain for the release of a new model (i phone), willing to pay over the odds for a perceived technical advantage. Zealots for the brand. Willing to pay a deposit to a company who has lost money for 14 quarters with a dire production record for a car that has not yet been built & willing to wait years for the pleasure of owning a device even though they do not know the actual price they will pay. When you are a Zealot logic goes out the window. That applies to all aspects of life. The luney left, the far right, the ''ultra'' football supporter. No matter if they are right or wrong they have passion. We need these people in the world.
I can also compare them to the people who buy a Gucci bag. While Apple can claim a tech advantage, Gucci can not. It is pure snobbery. I can afford a Gucci bag, you can not. I will wear it on my arm as a symbol of my status. It has no technical merit, it does not especially pretty but it shows I have a lot more money than you...
The luxury goods market is very complex & I do not claim to understand it. However, it is certainly a growing market. Insane credit policy means a lot of people have more money than sense. If anyone truly understands this market they will make a lot of money...

GREEN PEOPLE.
Again, there are a % percentage of Green Zealots. They will go Vegan so the cows do not fart & destroy the planet. They will make un-natural compromises to their lives to support the green cause. They are not influenced at all by price as they buy bio this, bio that, overpay for local produce etc.

THE CROWD.
My son is in a footballs team with 20 kids in the squad. Every single one of the kids have NIKE boots. That is statistically not normal. I live in Czech Republic so not all the parents can really afford 3 pairs of boots (costing over GBP100 each) every year. (one for grass, one for indoor & one for the fake pitches). Somehow, NIKE have ''got to'' the kids & the kids must have NIKE. I am sure NIKE are technically no better than a USD10 pair of boots on Alibaba (probably made in the same factory). This ''crowd'' factor seems to have a huge influence on purchases of everything so it must influence EV decisions. In the EV world the best example may be when the Prius was launched. Even if it was not very good EVERY Hollywood star had to have one so they would ''fit in'''& be seen to be green & liberal.

BARGAIN HUNTERS
These are the folks who spend 4 hours online checking the price of their shopping in the 5 local supermarkets before setting off to the shop 10 miles away so they can save 20p when they buy a loaf of bread. They love the thrill of the bargain. They do not consider the opportunity cost of the 4 potential 'billable hours'' they could have been paid for if they did something more productive with their time, nor do they consider the cost of the petrol to get to the shop. They got a bargain so they are happy. You will never convince them they did not get a bargain.
I think we have no bargain hunters as EV owners yet as the cars are just too expensive.

Such a tiny percentage of people own EVs. The vast majority do not own EVs. The decision making process for the majority of people is very complex. It considers everything. Price, running costs, image, suitability of purpose & convenience. The decision is sub consciously influenced by the media & advertising. Every bad EV article in a newspaper, every time an EV is slagged on Top gear & every over promise from EV companies or Zealots come into the decision making process.
In my humble opinion, EVs today do not make sense to this ''vast majority''. They probably care about the environment but not if it is an inconvenience. They have real lives to lead. They actually do need to drive to Granny every Friday after work & she lives 150 miles away. They do have to park their car ''somewhere'' on a street nearby because they do not have a driveway or a garage. They have real bills to pay every month.. Some of these people are somewhat influenced by the price of petrol. Some will buy a car because of fuel economy. Some will buy because of brand loyalty, other because of safety & lots because they can look cool or fit in with their peers.
I suspect many of the vast majority have considered an EV. I suspect after 5 minutes most of them came to the conclusion that an EV will not work for them. I suspect ''convenience'' is a bigger turn off than the price of the car or the price of petrol. People also do not want to learn a load of new stuff. They like things that are familiar (like petrol stations).
Until there are valid arguments for this vast majority to consider an EV the market will remain confined to Zealots of one description or another. All movements start with passionate Zealots. Many are misguided but that does not really matter. The key is that the movement gets started. These movements over time tend to get taken over by more logical, middle ground people who shift the movement toward the ''vast majority''.

I do not like Hybrids because it makes cars too heavy. I do not like just making battery packs bigger because it makes the cars too heavy. Heavy cars use more fuel no matter if that fuel if petrol, diesel or electricity..
I think the solution is range extenders. The BMW i3 Rex is on the right path. My aim is for a car with real all electric range of 250km & a 20kg petrol range extender so the car becomes ''convenient''. Journeys will never have to be planed. You can just hop in the car & use the car in all circumstances. Slow charge at night with a normal domestic socket & use a little petrol on very long journeys.

Why people & companies make purchasing decisions is a deeply complex topic. It is probably even more complex with EVs. What I have no doubt about is that in 100 years time people will look back & think that we were all mad to use petrol to propel cars.
 

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Initially I was looking for an nice automatic car that could do more than 50MPG, then I test drove an i3 a which point I became a fan of the EV driving experience, but even now I always want to keep running costs as low as possible but I have gone and paid more for the car so overall not saving money and next car I hope has 200 electric mile range and 150kW DC charger so won't be cheap but would hate to go back to ICE.
 

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Price of fuel was not a major influence as I don't do a huge amount of mileage, but it was included in total cost calculations to compare overall cost of ownership of various EV, PHEV and ICE options. The actual cost is an assumption, as is depreciation. As long as you factor the impact of rises/falls in the variable components of your cost analysis, you can make an informed decision.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Is that the Rx8s maximum oil top up range? or do you genuinely get 13mpg? My mate said 30mpg was difficult in his.



Hope that was 60miles each way! Either thar or you had a fuel leak that would have given the Exon Valdez a run for its money lol

I bought an EV because it was cheaper than its ICE equivalent. I could plan my monthly costs exactly. it drove nicely. Range is the only scanner.
I don't the Rx8 any more,every 1000miles i put 125mills in it , 30 is not hard on a long run.
 

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My feeling is that by the time we have the next oil boom we will have EV's which are 200m range genuine alternatives from established car makers and the normo's won't be frightened of them any more, cue a massive increase demand but only in a few countries like EU, US. I think late 2017 / 2018 :)
Don't forget Asia, and notably China. The offer in EVs is different than it is in the West, but the offer is there, and there is a strong push towards electric from the authorities, notably for reasons of limiting pollution. Also it is an expanding market; I just hope that those new car buyers will in large numbers choose (and can afford) electric.
 
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