Speak EV - Electric Car Forums banner

1 - 20 of 22 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,205 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I was charging yesterday at M6 Sandbach junction Polar, when there by myself previously I had a typical 45kW rapid charge, yesterday I sat next to a Ipace and was only getting 34kW, they had previously been sat by a Golf EV.

So dual chargers are now getting busy, I have had both chargers busy previously, and while Instavolt seem to still manage 45kW, these dropped. The Ipace must have been struggling to get enough power for long distance travel at a meagre 34kW.

How often do dual 50kW chargers drop to 34kW with 2 cars charging?

How often are people finding dual chargers both in use when they are charging?

I remain content with 50kW charge as the 28kW Ioniq still gives the best miles per charge power available, especially when the 100kW chargers are available. Do Ipace, Kona and other higher power cars drivers get frustrated with 50kW or lower / slower chargers?
 

·
Premium Member
2020 Corsa E
Joined
·
7,091 Posts
Didn't know they did that! Again it's another reason MSAs need proper power provision. If you're going to have banks of chargers then it's not much cop if they are all power sharing and dripping out fuel.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17,400 Posts
Another reason why I doubt I’ll stray from Tesla for a long range BEV.

I don’t fancy sitting at a rapid charger for three hours.
 

·
Registered
2016 Nissan LEAF SL
Joined
·
1,084 Posts
Even a lot of the Instavolt units do that. The 62kW points specifically tell you on screen that power is being shared when a car plugs in beside you.

In a lot of places, the power supply is limited and they have to do this in order to make them both work together.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
717 Posts
Inconvenient but its better to have 2 shared like this than just 1 charger as per most Polar. Above 80% charge most cars are tapering off. And what is the stastical chance of this happening.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,205 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
I was at 25% and needed another 20% to get home so over 80% was not relevant. 34kW is better than none, but it is still well below what modern cars can charge at, lots are content at upto 70kW and 34kW is half speed. With the number of new EV onto the road, more chargers are going to see both chargers in operation. Power to maintain at least 50kW is really needed. 34kW for at 3.5mile/kW car is a very miserable 2miles per minute.
 

·
Registered
2020 BMW i3S 120Ah BEV
Joined
·
498 Posts
And in two years time people will be complaining that "dropping to 75kw isn't enough" and the cycle will repeat. I do somewhat agree with the sentiment but it's still early days in public charging land and it's improving all the time.
At the moment infrastructure just isn't there to routinely provide more than these kinds of quantities. As more ground-up charging facilities are created we'll see better power provision overall.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
456 Posts
And in two years time people will be complaining that "dropping to 75kw isn't enough" and the cycle will repeat. I do somewhat agree with the sentiment but it's still early days in public charging land and it's improving all the time.
At the moment infrastructure just isn't there to routinely provide more than these kinds of quantities. As more ground-up charging facilities are created we'll see better power provision overall.
It’ll be a 2 tier pricing system, just like premium fuel now.

Pay their “standard” price for shared charging speed and a premium for a guaranteed output from a single post.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,853 Posts
I was at 25% and needed another 20% to get home so over 80% was not relevant. 34kW is better than none, but it is still well below what modern cars can charge at, lots are content at upto 70kW and 34kW is half speed. With the number of new EV onto the road, more chargers are going to see both chargers in operation. Power to maintain at least 50kW is really needed. 34kW for at 3.5mile/kW car is a very miserable 2miles per minute.
Just find another charger. The charger installation is behaving as per design. Was there any contractual promise of a minimum Amperage (remember, volts hence watts entirely depends on the pack voltage in a particular car). What your car can charge at is irrelevant. The charger is what the charger is.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,160 Posts
This where each site really needs to be having some form of storage be it gravity or battery to help take out these drops. Even if it only added another 20kw across the two for 20mins it would help a lot out and be able to quickly top up as 2*34kw means that site has 70+kw of capacity, so then one unit could ramp up to full power again and the battery can top up as well without much issue.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
717 Posts
I was at 25% and needed another 20% to get home so over 80% was not relevant. 34kW is better than none, but it is still well below what modern cars can charge at, lots are content at upto 70kW and 34kW is half speed. With the number of new EV onto the road, more chargers are going to see both chargers in operation. Power to maintain at least 50kW is really needed. 34kW for at 3.5mile/kW car is a very miserable 2miles per minute.
If my calculations are correct the difference between charging at 45kw and 34kw for your 20% would have been 4 mins.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,205 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
If my calculations are correct the difference between charging at 45kw and 34kw for your 20% would have been 4 mins.
If you look at my post you will see that I said it hardly made any difference to me, travelling at 4.8m/kWh and only needing a brief charge to get home. It was the Ipace with lower efficiency and a bigger battery that was having more problems.

The charger installation is behaving as per design.
Exactly, poor design for the needs of EV travelling the country. With the welcome increase in more EVs the charging network needs to increase and have capacity to charge at 50kW to keep people moving. However few folks here seem to feel we deserve that level of provision, unless you pay for a Tesla.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,853 Posts
If you look at my post you will see that I said it hardly made any difference to me, travelling at 4.8m/kWh and only needing a brief charge to get home. It was the Ipace with lower efficiency and a bigger battery that was having more problems.


Exactly, poor design for the needs of EV travelling the country. With the welcome increase in more EVs the charging network needs to increase and have capacity to charge at 50kW to keep people moving. However few folks here seem to feel we deserve that level of provision, unless you pay for a Tesla.
Exactly, choose a Tesla.
In my experience with EV charger installations, most are budget capped which means making the most of existing distribution. Princesses Street hub in Dundee is an example but in that case the supply is huge so not a problem to have multiple Rapids all delivering at maximum output.
So what do you want? Occasional limits when sharing or no RAPID at all
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,205 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
So what do you want? Occasional limits when sharing or no RAPID at all
Grant Shaps and National Grid to sort out a mess, but looking at the history of the current Government and the exam fiasco, that seems unlikely.
I was charging alongside the national motorway system, close to a msa where EH have a poor history of charging. The people who use EVs deserve to have a reliable and consistent charging service. 50kW chargers are standard fare and we should be able to receive this in paired situations.
How does this Government expect to keep EVs in motion and reduce fossil fuel use if they cannot supply adequate power.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,160 Posts
IMO i wouldn't say poor design spec. The difference in cost as you up the power levels to a site that will rarely need 2*45kw provision is massive.
Better to get a smaller supply and load share when needed for those uber rare times. Its about scrimping the pennies and Polar are good with that when their network/units are working :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
926 Posts
It's unusual for both cars to arrive at the same time and it's therefore likely that one of the cars will have charged to a point where it would naturally throttle back the charging rate to protect the batteries. Hopefully the algorithm for allocating the current between the chargers is smart enough to fully utilise the available power.

The cars that can charge at 100 + kW will probably migrate to higher power chargers as they get installed freeing up the 50 kW chargers. If you have more range your more likely to be able to select where you charge rather than waiting until the battery is nearly empty.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,205 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
The cars that can charge at 100 + kW will probably migrate to higher power chargers as they get installed freeing up the 50 kW chargers. If you have more range your more likely to be able to select where you charge rather than waiting until the battery is nearly empty.
There are very few chargers available on the M6 from Birmingham to Preston, after that there are a number of relatively accessible Instavolt chargers.
While Tesla have much greater charging capacity, CCS lags behind and where 2 50kW are installed we accept 34kW as reasonable. When i started 50kW was the maximum that CCS/Chademo could do, now cars usually are 70kW or more, yet most chsrgers are 50kW and less when 2 are there.
Comments of move on to another charger, are not recognising the state of chargers along the major roads.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
593 Posts
I was at 25% and needed another 20% to get home so over 80% was not relevant. 34kW is better than none, but it is still well below what modern cars can charge at, lots are content at upto 70kW and 34kW is half speed. With the number of new EV onto the road, more chargers are going to see both chargers in operation. Power to maintain at least 50kW is really needed. 34kW for at 3.5mile/kW car is a very miserable 2miles per minute.
Another reason to buy a more efficient car.

I'm often getting around 34kwh max in my Ioniq (turning up to charges with a cold battery) but so far it hasn't been a huge issue because the battery is "only" 38kwh. Only takes 40 mins to get to 80% from 12-15%.

I used an InstaVolt recently on a day trip, parked in a supermarket. Arrived with 16%. Went shopping. Car was at 100% within 1h 20mins. Forgot I'd left it at 100% limit. But 195 miles of range in that time...

That's hardly waiting at a charger for 3 hours.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,160 Posts
There are very few chargers available on the M6 from Birmingham to Preston, after that there are a number of relatively accessible Instavolt chargers.
While Tesla have much greater charging capacity, CCS lags behind and where 2 50kW are installed we accept 34kW as reasonable. When i started 50kW was the maximum that CCS/Chademo could do, now cars usually are 70kW or more, yet most chsrgers are 50kW and less when 2 are there.
Comments of move on to another charger, are not recognising the state of chargers along the major roads.
So ok there is....
Stafford, Keele, Sandbach(x2) then Knutsford, Lymm, Haydock, Charnock Richard.....

hows that not enough chargers or points for that route? all sites have at least 1 ccs as well at the them that i know is semi reliable from seeing others using them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
926 Posts
A 3 phase mains supply at 64 Amps gives 43 kW, I suspect this is the reason that many 50 kW DC chargers deliver a maximum of 40 - 43 kW. Installing a higher power supply would mean bigger cabling and switch gear. This is another reason it makes sense to install chargers in clusters of 4 or 8, lay in one big supply cable and then share the supply between all of the chargers. With a cluster of 4 it's likely that 1 or 2 aren't being used and if they are all in use there's the probability that at least one of the cars can't take the full current.
 
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
Top