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BEV road warrior
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Discussion Starter #1
Changes to car charging in

County Durham

A small fee is being introduced for drivers of electric vehicles to charge their cars at council owned charging points.

From Monday 23 June, a flat fee will be introduced across all of Durham County Council’s 31 charging points. A charge of £1 per visit will be applicable to the 30 standard points and a £5 fee for the rapid charging point at the Belmont Park and Ride site, regardless of the amount of electricity used.

As well as contributing towards the cost of maintaining the charging points, it is hoped that the nominal charge will also enable more drivers will be able to use some of the more popular charging points. Currently, parking in charging bays is permitted as long as the vehicle is plugged into the charger. This can lead to some bays being occupied when charging isn’t necessary. By introducing a fee, the council hopes it will also encourage people to only use the bays when they need to charge their vehicle. This, in turn, should allow more drivers to access them.

Drivers will be able to pay using their Charge Your Car Access Cards or, where available, the Charge Your Car app or pay-by-phone service.

Cllr Neil Foster, Cabinet member for economic regeneration, said: “The council is committed to encouraging the use of electric vehicles to help protect the environment of the county for years to come. We hope that the nominal fee will make it easier for drivers to access the most popular points as well as helping the council to meet some of the cost of maintenance”
 

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Yep I just read the Charge your car newsletter. At my gym tonight in Newbiggin (Northumberland county council) the receptionist chap said the new rapid outside was free to use with a CYC card until 50,000 Leaf's are sold! :) I must ask him where he got that info
 

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This p&r charger is on the A1 and I've used it for a charge when the ecotricity fast charger at Durham is offline
 

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Please don't be too harsh on Durham. I know for a fact that the guy in chargeof their infrastructure drives an EV every singe day and is incredibly proactive about things. I'll pass on the comments and point out that they're allowed to charge per kWh now.

In other news, I'm glad someone read the newsletter. And please tell the receptionist at the gym that is she wants 50,000 leafs she better get on board!
 

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BEV road warrior
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Discussion Starter #5
Just seemed to be a repeat of MK and Chargemaster. At £5 I would have thought usage would drop.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Please don't be too harsh on Durham. I know for a fact that the guy in chargeof their infrastructure drives an EV every singe day and is incredibly proactive about things. I'll pass on the comments and point out that they're allowed to charge per kWh now.

In other news, I'm glad someone read the newsletter. And please tell the receptionist at the gym that is she wants 50,000 leafs she better get on board!
ps the receptionist was a 'chap'.
 

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Also in defence of Durham p&r, I must say that this the first place that I've been to in an EV where the guy on duty went out of his way to come over to me when I plugged in to 7kW to tell me that the fast charger was up and running! Way to go!
 
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Well it's not gone live yet.
The ting about it is that hosts on set the tar
ps the receptionist was a 'chap'.
HUGE apologies for this. It is an enormous bugbear of mine when people do this. The fact I've made that awful assumption is terrible - Sorry!

As far as Durham goes, we've recently put a massive amount of work into the back office and data recording to allow billing by the unit (hour, minutes, kWh etc...) and although CYC have NO influence over the tariffs put in place, I will go back to Durham and point out a 'per kWh' tariff is availble

Ian's a lovely fella, he really isn't out for profiteering.
 

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Just seemed to be a repeat of MK and Chargemaster. At £5 I would have thought usage would drop.
If you are desperate you will cough up the cash, lick your wounds afterwards, leaner but wiser
 

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Well, as I've said I'll go back to Durham with feedback and see what they say

BUT (this is a big but - I now move opinions expressed to my own. REPEAT - Views expressed are my own and NOT that of CYC. At all. AT ALL)

£5 seems to be the rapid change 'standard' from CP owners. If you work out a BASIC rule of thumb that it's 12p per kWh and a battery is 21kW - lekky from 0-100% is £2.51

Clearly a rough idea and a rough estimate but you can understand how councils come to these figures. It's been free for a long time but at some point the owner surely needs to cover costs.

I KNOW that drivers want to pay per kWh and (as far as I know) we're the only back office in the world that allows that atm. The options are there to hosts and I'l lensure all comments are passed back to them.

Again - Views above are NOT that of CYC but of me, Peter Smith. I will make my own account soon but wanted to address these questions now - From my own pov, NOT that of CYC (just to be sure)
 

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@CYC I think that is where the logic is flaw and why ppl are complaining. If majority of charging at rapid (talking average), the car just litterly Roll in flat than paying £5 / 6-7.5 to rapid charge to 80% is quite reasonable.

But most ppl I would assume (at least I and some other ppl) charge when 20-40%. So let assume 30% in the middle. 100 / 21 ==4.7619047619 % per unit. Therefore they would have 6.3 already stored in car when arrived. 80% would be 16.8. So if minus 6.3 from 16.8 = 10.5. That mean at your 12p a unit that charge in electric cost sense (not including maintanace and stuff), would be £1.26.

So if one does not want to make profit but just cover cost I would say including fund for future expansion, support etc it would be better at the £2.5-3. At £5 it will be making a profit.

Anyway I might be using some of those posts on way up to Scotland in July :)
 

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Have you seen the MK usage graphs that show how their charges quite literally sent us back to the ICE age?! Maybe that will help illustrate the impact of such pricing, if they really are pro EV in the local area?
 

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My assumption, £1.30 a litre, £5.85 a gallon, my car averages 60mpg, ergo £5 for a 60 mile charge is 85p less than the equivalent cost of petrol, ergo dangerously close to the cost of petrol.
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U comparing apple with apple I mean same type of car ie not comparing a small 1 litre car to Nissan leaf say? On old car / parent get between 30-45mph on average
 

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U comparing apple with apple I mean same type of car ie not comparing a small 1 litre car to Nissan leaf say? On old car / parent get between 30-45mph on average
The last ICE cars I had……..

Nissan Navara life time average 33mpg
BMW 118d LTA 65mpg
Renault Cloe LTA 75mpg
Mercedes E250d LTA 50mpg (obviously a much bigger car)

even in the ICE age things have progressed
 

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Well, as I've said I'll go back to Durham with feedback and see what they say

BUT (this is a big but - I now move opinions expressed to my own. REPEAT - Views expressed are my own and NOT that of CYC. At all. AT ALL)

£5 seems to be the rapid change 'standard' from CP owners. If you work out a BASIC rule of thumb that it's 12p per kWh and a battery is 21kW - lekky from 0-100% is £2.51

Clearly a rough idea and a rough estimate but you can understand how councils come to these figures. It's been free for a long time but at some point the owner surely needs to cover costs.

I KNOW that drivers want to pay per kWh and (as far as I know) we're the only back office in the world that allows that atm. The options are there to hosts and I'l lensure all comments are passed back to them.

Again - Views above are NOT that of CYC but of me, Peter Smith. I will make my own account soon but wanted to address these questions now - From my own pov, NOT that of CYC (just to be sure)
Rapid charging does not fill an empty battery. It is very rare that anyone rolls up totally empty (in fact no EVs that I know of will actually let the battery get close to empty as this causes physical damage - 0 miles remaining is not an empty battery). In fact it is even worse as you can't wait until '0 miles' before stopping to charge, you have to stop where there is a charger and I tend to find this happens when I have 25% to 50% charge. In these cases I am not really 'ready' for a rapid charge, but I don't have the range to get to the next rapid charger. Then you will only get a charge up to 80%, not 100%. Even then 100% is not a 'full' battery, that again causes damage. So my car's 16kWh battery probably only has 14kWh usable, and I tend to charge from 25% to 80% of that or 50% to 80% of that. This means 30% of 14kWh to 55% of 14kWh. Last week I did a run of 440 miles in a day, and looking back at my charging I see that the biggest rapid charge that day was about 8kWh and most were between 4 and 5. If we say that 4.5kWh is a typical rapid charge for my EV, £5 is a lot to charge.
 

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Can I confirm, is it a rapid charger, or a fast charger?
2014-06-07 19.55.39.jpg 2014-06-07 19.58.26.jpg

Definitely a rapid. I've been using it 3 or 4 times a week while it's been free, but that will stop now.

The local dealer is only about a mile away, and they're getting a rapid when their now showroom is finished which they say shouldn't be long now. Don't know if it will be 24/7 tho.
 
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