Speak EV - Electric Car Forums banner

1 - 20 of 50 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
32 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi everyone,

I am conducting a study on the impact of EVs charging on the electricity network, and I have a question on Dynamic EV Charging.

Dynamic Charging learns how and when you drive and ensures your car is ready to go when you need it for your daily commute, by smoothing out the peaks in electricity demand and saving everyone money on their energy bills. It sounds great for society and could reduce the cost of running your EV electricity bill ...

The theory is that most of the time, Dynamic charging is the same as standard charging. Dynamic Charging typically delays charging until the early hours of the morning and pulls electricity from the grid when fewer people are using it. However, if you need to charge your vehicle in the evenings (e.g. between 4 pm and 10 pm) you might notice that Dynamic Charging doesn’t charge your vehicle as fast during these hours.

Would you be interested in giving Dynamic Charging a go? I'm keen but would love to hear more from everyone else.

Please fill in my poll (it takes only 2 minutes to complete) to let me know what you think, check out my attached survey by clicking on the link below or reply with your comments ...

Link to survey

Thanks!

Giampaolo
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
11,448 Posts
We charge our cars almost exclusively from 2am to 6am as we want to use off-peak (cheap) electricity. How would your suggestion impact what we do?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Peter Cittern

·
Registered
Joined
·
32 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
We charge our cars almost exclusively from 2am to 6am as we want to use off-peak (cheap) electricity. How would your suggestion impact what we do?
Hi proddick thanks for your answer (hope you filled in the survey). Well, it is exactly the same thing with a substantial difference. In your case it is a scheduled charging while my analysis is looking at ensuring that the charging of many EVs on the grid (not just yours) follow the generation profile on the grid at any point in time. Hope this helps and thanks again.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
11,448 Posts
As I am sure you know, this is an area the government are very interested in. They will probably mandate that all new EV chargers fitted in UK homes have demand side capability no later than 2020. The details are yet to be finalised, but a lot is already documented in what was the "Modern Transport Bill " and is being rehashed as the "Automated and Electric Vehicles Bill".
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
32 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
As I am sure you know, this is an area the government are very interested in. They will probably mandate that all new EV chargers fitted in UK homes have demand side capability no later than 2020. The details are yet to be finalised, but a lot is already documented in what was the "Modern Transport Bill " and is being rehashed as the "Automated and Electric Vehicles Bill".
Exactly! this goes exactly in this direction! Thanks for contributing proddick
 

·
Premium Member
2020 Corsa E
Joined
·
7,756 Posts
No. If I need to charge I need to charge. I usually set the timer for the middle of the night. Sometimes I end up needing extra charge so I need to be able to plug in whenever. If the car was an only car then it wouldn't be dumped for a petrol hybrid very quickly if I couldn't charge when I needed to.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
32 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
No. If I need to charge I need to charge. I usually set the timer for the middle of the night. Sometimes I end up needing extra charge so I need to be able to plug in whenever. If the car was an only car then it wouldn't be dumped for a petrol hybrid very quickly if I couldn't charge when I needed to.
Thanks or your reply. I believe the point is to have an artificial intelligence behind the dynamic charging that would always optimise your charging making sure you get always 100% of your battery in the morning. The good thing about it is that you won't need to setup any schedule; the AI will do everything for you avoiding any impact on battery level. It's pretty amazing...trust me!
 

·
Premium Member
2020 Corsa E
Joined
·
7,756 Posts
Thanks or your reply. I believe the point is to have an artificial intelligence behind the dynamic charging that would always optimise your charging making sure you get always 100% of your battery in the morning. The good thing about it is that you won't need to setup any schedule; the AI will do everything for you avoiding any impact on battery level. It's pretty amazing...trust me!
Which is no good if you need that charge the same day. Morning after isn't any good.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
755 Posts
The problem is that while you may just need an overnight charge 98% of the time, you will occasionally need to do something extraordinary.

If the AI decides that today will be like the other 98% and so refuses / slows your emergency charge to go and be with your elderly mum in hospital I would not be best pleased.

As such, why would someone take that risk ? What upside would an EV owner get from allowing an AI to potentially muck them about ?
 

·
Registered
Ion, Kona, 16 + 18 + 2020 Soul EV
Joined
·
2,561 Posts
This would only work if you are charged for example economy 7 rates per kilowatt if you allow your car to charge like this. An option to disable it when you just need to charge immediately paying normal rate as quick as possible may make the scheme workable. It would be an attractive option for those without economy 7 to benefit from the lower rates of it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
755 Posts
This would only work if you are charged for example economy 7 rates per kilowatt if you allow your car to charge like this. An option to disable it when you just need to charge immediately paying normal rate as quick as possible may make the scheme workable. It would be an attractive option for those without economy 7 to benefit from the lower rates of it.
Except that we already have exactly this. Low cost electrons most of the time with the car automatically charging after 23:00 and full price electrons at other times when I override the scheduled charge option in the app.
 

·
Registered
Ion, Kona, 16 + 18 + 2020 Soul EV
Joined
·
2,561 Posts
Yes we have, but only if we have an economy 7 meter and tarriff at home. I was talking of offering the rate at anytime for anyone who had dynamic charging allowed.
 

·
I'm not crazy, the attack has begun.
Joined
·
29,491 Posts
I sniff some grant-grabbing BS here.

I am getting ever more cynical over anyone's attempt to 'fiddle' with the way EVs are used and EV owners expectations of doing stuff.

It is a bit like all the charge points that were installed at many £10,000s that never got used because they were put in at stupid places. No interest in them actually being used, just for show, just an OLEV grant-grab. I'd call it fraud.

I digress... why do I think this is possibly where what you are suggesting will end up? Simple.... because it doesn't matter if you use an EV or use a kettle, and no-one's tried to control how kettles are used.

If there was a serious interest in getting consumers to help load-balance, then it is absolutely, dead, stupidly simple to fix:- you just adjust the electricity price.

There are two main reasons for this;-
a) you should never mandate restrictions on when people are going to charge, you have no idea if they need to or if they are bone idle and just charge up as soon as they get home. It is not for Big Brother to determine.
b) All that is required for load balancing is to control the electricity price, and let people figure out what is in their best interests. It could even be done in real time, dynamically, within a bounded range. If the price is flashing up on the intelligent monitor "5p/kWh" heck, you run that kettle. If it is "30p/kWh" you decide to wait a moment and have your tea later.

Simples.

It is so simple, it means it is virtually inevitable someone will come along and F-it up and try to make it more complicated.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
555 Posts
... As such, why would someone take that risk ? What upside would an EV owner get from allowing an AI to potentially muck them about ?
I agree completely. I already use E7 to provide exactly what this proposes, with the exception that I KNOW I'll get the charge I expect, not leaving it to chance or some AI programming.
Electric Nation has no benefits for the EV owner. In my case it is unnecessary anyway as I am the only EV owner on my substation.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
11,448 Posts
Generally the idea with demand side is that there is a financial incentive to agree and often a rebate for the period it occurs. In Florida if we sign up FPL can switch off our AC for up to 15 minutes. So far incentive hasn't been large enough for us to volunteer.

Based on direction of government travel, doing this with EVs in UK is likely to become compulsory - probably for home charging by 2020. I can't see that a short downtime (or reduced power) during overnight charging is a big issue in most scenarios.
 

·
Electric Leaf Man
Joined
·
1,641 Posts
If it's cheaper to charge at night (which it is for me on a smart meter) then you won't need an AI, people will do it for you!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,735 Posts
The obvious way to implement this would be a switch on the charge points when you plug in. Press the button if you really need to charge NOW, don't press if you want to let cheaper electricity (local renewables / grid renewables / off-peak baseload ) fill the battery.

Or it could be a toggle switch. Regardless, the driver who parks the car should be the person in charge. For public charging, it should probably default to full rate charge now, unless local grid load is a problem. Public charging that varies the charge current probably shouldn't charge by time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
222 Posts
We should embrace this. The logical next step is that we not only have software managing how we take electricity from the grid but it also returns energy to the grid at times of peak demand. I can imagine a day when I charge my car at off peak rate then return some of that energy to the grid (or my home) and get paid double the rate for doing that, basically subsidising the cost of the car. It overcomes some of the electricity supply issues around growing ev ownership and makes ev ownership more attractive.
 
1 - 20 of 50 Posts
Top