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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I currently have a new Passat GTE Estate (2021 model) and my previous car was similar but a '66 plate. As yet I have never paid to recharge whilst out'n'about, always charging at home and using hybrid mode on longer trips.

Reading in another thread about charging on the road I saw example prices of 31 p/kWh and 36 p/kWh at Osprey & Instavolt respectively - which I thought was rather expensive.

I did some calculations based on the following assumptions:
  • I have 10.4 kWh usable battery on my car
  • Current petrol cost = 109.9p per litre (cheapest around here)
  • I can manage 30 miles range on purely electric (regularly doing so at the moment)
  • I could manage 50 mpg in my last ICE Passat, '13 plate (sometimes more on trips)
At 31p per kWh, a full recharge would cost £3.22
At 36p per kWh, a full recharge would cost £3.74
30 miles in my old ICE Passat would cost £3.00.
(Even at 40 mpg this would be £3.75)
I dread to think what motorway service stations charge and what these costs would amount to!

Obviously, charging at home, the Electric cost is roughly halved and therefore much cheaper to fill up - definitely worth getting your home charger guys!!

I hope I'm wrong somewhere and would be glad to be corrected.
 

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I think the key things are that:
  1. petrol is currently cheaper that it would normally be.
  2. the vast majority of people currently driving EVs (many of whom are paying a premium to have possession of it vs an equivalent ICE car) do indeed do the vast majority of charging at home.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I think the key things are that:
  1. petrol is currently cheaper that it would normally be.
  2. the vast majority of people currently driving EVs (many of whom are paying a premium to have possession of it vs an equivalent ICE car) do indeed do the vast majority of charging at home.

With my calculations petrol would need to cost 137 pence per litre to be equivalent to the 36 p/kWh above. I'm not sure what you mean by "normally be". (118 pence per litre to compare with 31 p/kWh.)

There are vast numbers of people who would like an EV but are unable to plug in at home - these costs would certainly put me off if that was the case for me.
 

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I mean if it weren’t for Covid, and these were more normal times, petrol would probably cost more than it does currently.

Agree on point two, but hopefully the price premium often required to be paid in order to possess an EV will be all but eliminated in the not too distant future, and/or it will become possible for people without off-street home parking to charge more cheaply in their local area, perhaps by having some public charging within a certain area linked to their home energy bill.

In essence, EV driving is cheaper for some but not for everyone, and ICE driving is less expensive this year than it almost certainly would have been had Covid not happened.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I mean if it weren’t for Covid, and these were more normal times, petrol would probably cost more than it does currently.

Agree on point two, but hopefully the price premium often required to be paid in order to possess an EV will be all but eliminated in the not too distant future, and/or it will become possible for people without off-street home parking to charge more cheaply in their local area, perhaps by having some public charging within a certain area linked to their home energy bill.

In essence, EV driving is cheaper for some but not for everyone, and ICE driving is less expensive this year than it almost certainly would have been had Covid not happened.
Yes, I think you are probably correct about petrol pricing, but it would need to be considerably higher to make electric driving significantly cheaper at 36p per kWh. I think many people just assume that electric driving is going to be cheaper without doing the maths.
Thanks for the replies Bill.
 

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There is also the fact that paying 36p/kWh to charge your passat would be completely futile - you can’t rapid charge and those kind of rates are most often the cost of convenience.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
There is also the fact that paying 36p/kWh to charge your passat would be completely futile - you can’t rapid charge and those kind of rates are most often the cost of convenience.
Yes I agree, that's why I said in my original comment that I have never used an "on-the-road" charger, always charge at home.

But, surely, the costs would similarly apply to a fully electric vehicle?
 

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Yes, I think you are probably correct about petrol pricing, but it would need to be considerably higher to make electric driving significantly cheaper at 36p per kWh. I think many people just assume that electric driving is going to be cheaper without doing the maths.
Thanks for the replies Bill.
No problem - it’s an interesting topic. My suspicion is the majority of people who have become EV drivers thus far are the type of people who do do the maths, and either have home charging (and switch to a provider like Octopus and/or maybe even have home solar), or, if they don’t have home charging they make sure to look into where they can charge cheaply locally (or even for free), or, they obtain an EV via a company such as Onto that provides all inclusive charging via certain networks.
 

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Yes, but they’re extremely unlikely to be the only source of charging someone has.

Two BEV household here - typical home charging cost is 1.5p/mile but as little as 0p. Rapid charging on long journeys is expensive but massively offset as a result.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
No problem - it’s an interesting topic. My suspicion is the majority of people who have become EV drivers thus far are the type of people who do do the maths, and either have home charging (and switch to a provider like Ocotpus and/or maybe even have home solar), or, if they have don’t have home charging they make sure to look into where they can charge cheaply locally (or even for free), or, they obtain an EV via a company such as Onto that provides all inclusive charging via certain networks.
Having never used it, EV charging on-the-go all seems rather complicated to me. I will eventually get a full EV, so I'll need to do my homework on the topic. Hopefully it'll be a lot clearer and a better infrastructure.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Yes, but they’re extremely unlikely to be the only source of charging someone has.

Two BEV household here - typical home charging cost is 1.5p/mile but as little as 0p. Rapid charging on long journeys is expensive but massively offset as a result.
Yes, I agree. Thank you.
 

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Well, OP has selected a very specific case scenario for his comparison. How about:
  • free public chargers, they are still available;
  • home charging;

If you don't like the expense, that's fine. But it is not the only use case for an EV or PHEV in your case.
 

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My motivation for switching to EV was not for cost saving.... which is good, because it doesn't save me money - mainly because I've always bought cheap cars... However, compared to my hybrid Yaris, which achieves 62-64mpg the per mile cost of 'fuel' for the EV is 50% assuming I'm charging at home at £0.15/kWh. So charging at the Instavolt/Osprey price of 35-36p/kWh is about parity. In practice I'm doing better than that because I take advantage of some free charging from an orphaned rapid and some supermarket pod points now and then. If I ever get a working smart meter my home charging costs will be much lower.

Instavolt seem a bit expensive at 35p/kWh, especially when BP Pulse rapids are often 20-25. The difference is the Instavolt and Osprey chargers do tend to work. With the way we organise ourselves at the moment the networks need to be profitable. They also need to bring in enough to invest in maintenance, repair and upgrades. Charge too little and you end up with a sea of broken and orphaned chargers. Charge too much and drivers will go elsewhere. I suspect this mid 30s price has been hit upon as striking the balance.

I also view these more like motorway service fuel stops. I use them when it's necessary but it isn't a regular thing.

Edit: for clarity EV per mile costs are 50% of an efficient petrol car based on standard domestic electricity tariffs.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Well, OP has selected a very specific case scenario for his comparison. How about:
  • free public chargers, they are still available;
  • home charging;

If you don't like the expense, that's fine. But it is not the only use case for an EV or PHEV in your case.
I did say that I have always charged at home as I have a PHEV.
I know there are other advantages to electric driving and I haven't said that I didn't like the expense as such. I was merely reporting that I was surprised to read elsewhere that Osprey and Instavolt's charging prices led to more expensive fuel costs - I hadn't realised that before.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I agree with you on the capacity limitations of the hatchbacks/saloons, which is one reason I'm surprised they haven't done a SR+ estate. There's an MG estate next year. But it will have a usable 48.8kWh battery. If they ever put a 70kWh battery in it then I'm sure it will take the fleet market by storm.
Maybe I'll have to wait for an ID12 for an estate :)
 
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