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Sue where did you read that. Its very good news if true. Or were they doing something to maintain planning permission.
The Coire Glas pumped hydro storage development has taken a symbolic step forward as ground was broken on the project for the first time.

Contractors from BAM Ritchies began work near Kilfinnan Farm on Wednesday 3 November (pictured). The activity is part of Kilfinnan Road Ground Investigation Works, which will help the Coire Glas team to assess the options for upgrading the Kilfinnan Road to enable the main construction works that are scheduled to commence from 2024.

Ground broken on Coire Glas project — Coire Glas
 

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So not exactly a huge investment at this point .....
 

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Discussion Starter · #123 ·
I quite agree that the cfd auction should not be overly limited at this point. Wind turbine technology has gone from Ford model T to Cortina to Audi in the last 15 years, no doubt there will be further refinements but the turbines being installed in the next year are 14/15 MW have to be built with floating cranes taller than the BT Tower, the output being 5 times more than the earlier offshore farms need a 5th of the cabling and piling etc. Even the bathymetric surveys are done by robotic unmanned boats, costs may yet come down more but we must be near the sweet spot.
Crown Estate Scotland is currently deciding on leases for Scottish waters, this is where the big prize is, strong winds when the rest of the country is in the doldrums. I suspect that floating wind is the technology there, the anchorage and flexing cables are nascent technology but not beyond the wit of man. Let’s hope they offer up 10GW and get a new round of cfd auctions soon.
There are a good number of wind farms shovel ready waiting for the starting pistol, if the ships with the right tools are available 10GW could be up and spinning in 3 years. My reading of news releases leads me to believe that 5 GW of new wind farms are all but being built with memorandums of understandings (pre contracts) in place. It is quite clear that we are unlikely to face a massive oversupply as we are able to lay off up to 8 GW to Europe and the hydrogen and ammonia guys haven’t built their plant yet, but that could easily consume a GW reasonably quickly. What is clear is that transport is ready to adopt electrification, the message from early adopters of cars has hit home, the electric white vans are being built, trucks are starting to be adopted for the shorter deliveries and the lack of lorry drivers has made lazy industry use trains. Low passenger numbers have freed up paths for freight trains and new tri mode freight locos are being built for overhead electricity, 3rd rail and diesel for use in freight yards. Bio diesel is being used.
I suspect that the National Grid’s future scenarios are being revised showing faster adoption of electricity. Domestic heating is the next real challenge, I can attest heat pumps work well, they are overly complicated to install but only because no-one has gone down a street of semis and replicated installation after installation. My installer is working replacing oil boilers in semi rural Hampshire in big homes.
So lets have 15GW built quickly to get rid of gas for the mostpart!
 

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I quite agree that the cfd auction should not be overly limited at this point. Wind turbine technology has gone from Ford model T to Cortina to Audi in the last 15 years, no doubt there will be further refinements but the turbines being installed in the next year are 14/15 MW have to be built with floating cranes taller than the BT Tower, the output being 5 times more than the earlier offshore farms need a 5th of the cabling and piling etc. Even the bathymetric surveys are done by robotic unmanned boats, costs may yet come down more but we must be near the sweet spot.
Crown Estate Scotland is currently deciding on leases for Scottish waters, this is where the big prize is, strong winds when the rest of the country is in the doldrums. I suspect that floating wind is the technology there, the anchorage and flexing cables are nascent technology but not beyond the wit of man. Let’s hope they offer up 10GW and get a new round of cfd auctions soon.
There are a good number of wind farms shovel ready waiting for the starting pistol, if the ships with the right tools are available 10GW could be up and spinning in 3 years. My reading of news releases leads me to believe that 5 GW of new wind farms are all but being built with memorandums of understandings (pre contracts) in place. It is quite clear that we are unlikely to face a massive oversupply as we are able to lay off up to 8 GW to Europe and the hydrogen and ammonia guys haven’t built their plant yet, but that could easily consume a GW reasonably quickly. What is clear is that transport is ready to adopt electrification, the message from early adopters of cars has hit home, the electric white vans are being built, trucks are starting to be adopted for the shorter deliveries and the lack of lorry drivers has made lazy industry use trains. Low passenger numbers have freed up paths for freight trains and new tri mode freight locos are being built for overhead electricity, 3rd rail and diesel for use in freight yards. Bio diesel is being used.
I suspect that the National Grid’s future scenarios are being revised showing faster adoption of electricity. Domestic heating is the next real challenge, I can attest heat pumps work well, they are overly complicated to install but only because no-one has gone down a street of semis and replicated installation after installation. My installer is working replacing oil boilers in semi rural Hampshire in big homes.
So lets have 15GW built quickly to get rid of gas for the mostpart!
Post of the day! Have a like...
 

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We don't have a Quooker. They are silly money for what they are IMHO. I bought a three way kitchen tap and boiler from a company in The Netherlands, that has a discreet third tap and safety interlock to dispense boiling water. Looks pretty much the same as an ordinary kitchen tap. Looking at our daytime electricity use there is no indication of the thing turning on at all. It's wired via a time switch, so its boiler is only on for the period when we're likely to want boiling water. Because the boiler is very well insulated it doesn't need a lot of power to keep it a bit over boiling point (it stores water under a set pressure of about 1.5 bar, so can sit at 105°C without actually boiling).

In terms of running cost, the PV system covers most of that all year around. This wouldn't be the case for a kettle, as they can draw around 2 kW, so the PV system would only cover that load if it was generating more than that, and much of the time it won't be. I think the keep-alive heater in our boiler is something like 30 to 40 W.
Very interesting to see how peak load has become the defining parameter rather than daily total energy consumption in your hot water for the kitchen supply. Boiling a kettle five times a day would seem to be aboout the break even point with the keep-alive daily load in your system for total energy consumption. Solar PV and Battery storage are making rethink my home energy strategy as are the long wasteful pipe runs from H/W tank to kitchen. Using less water would also save CO2 back in the supply system. Could you please provide details of the supplier of the tap you use?
 

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We are NOT NOT NOT aiming for 24/7 zero CO2 but NET zero CO2 a huge difference.

You make this statement as if wind is the only kid on the block why?

In any case we need to build complete overcapacity say 200GW nameplate wind and 200GW solar and then start to think what you are going to do in times of plenty.

Many will have missed the fact that New Years day was the first day that we were net 100% clean energy (RE + nuclear) i
Overcapacity is an insane approach as it will lead to under used plant and even higher energy prices. We need to build the right capacity and right sizing involves making use of surplus energy economically with storage or export as you build not afterwards. Could we get the UK back to being a net exporter of energy as in the Industrial Revolution we were with King Coal?
 

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Very interesting to see how peak load has become the defining parameter rather than daily total energy consumption in your hot water for the kitchen supply. Boiling a kettle five times a day would seem to be aboout the break even point with the keep-alive daily load in your system for total energy consumption. Solar PV and Battery storage are making rethink my home energy strategy as are the long wasteful pipe runs from H/W tank to kitchen. Using less water would also save CO2 back in the supply system. Could you please provide details of the supplier of the tap you use?
Indeed, PV in particular really does put the focus on trying to keep loads within whatever is being generated at any time. Battery storage helps, by acting as a buffer to allow short peak loads without pulling from the mains, but only up to the inverter rating, and rating an inverter to deal with high peak loads tends to reduce efficiency. There's a sweet spot where the limited peak load capability of the inverter is worth putting up with because there's still a net saving because of it's slightly lower overall losses.

The boiling water tap we have is the older version of this this unit: Itho UK - Boiling Water Taps

I found Itho Daalderop very good to deal with, but unfortunately they no longer sell to the UK. The model we have is near identical to this tap that's now marketed here by Franke, at a very much higher price: Minerva 4-in-1 Electronic
 

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Very interesting to see how peak load has become the defining parameter rather than daily total energy consumption in your hot water for the kitchen supply. Boiling a kettle five times a day would seem to be aboout the break even point with the keep-alive daily load in your system for total energy consumption. Solar PV and Battery storage are making rethink my home energy strategy as are the long wasteful pipe runs from H/W tank to kitchen. Using less water would also save CO2 back in the supply system. Could you please provide details of the supplier of the tap you use?
My combi is in the attic, a very long way from the kitchen. The thought of how much energy it must take to heat the boiler, then heat enough water to fill the pipes just to wash your hands or do a few dishes is insane!

I now wash my hands in cold water and if we need to do a few dishes then some water from the boiling tap added to cold is perfect. Doubly so if the sun is shining.
 

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My combi is in the attic, a very long way from the kitchen. The thought of how much energy it must take to heat the boiler, then heat enough water to fill the pipes just to wash your hands or do a few dishes is insane!

I now wash my hands in cold water and if we need to do a few dishes then some water from the boiling tap added to cold is perfect. Doubly so if the sun is shining.

That's a very good point. I've been kicking myself for years that I didn't opt for the version of our boiling water tap that has a bigger boiler and a thermostatic mixer valve to supply the hot tap. That just needs a cold supply, and provides near-instant hot water at the tap, as well as boiling water. There's a lot to be said for fitting instant water heaters for small volume hot water needs, like hand wash basins, I think. They save a lot of water and almost certainly save energy as well, even though they draw a great deal of power for the short time they are in use.
 

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That's a very good point. I've been kicking myself for years that I didn't opt for the version of our boiling water tap that has a bigger boiler and a thermostatic mixer valve to supply the hot tap. That just needs a cold supply, and provides near-instant hot water at the tap, as well as boiling water. There's a lot to be said for fitting instant water heaters for small volume hot water needs, like hand wash basins, I think. They save a lot of water and almost certainly save energy as well, even though they draw a great deal of power for the short time they are in use.
You can get under sink hot water heaters of various sizes.

Eg this one: Ariston Andris Lux Undersink Water Heater 2kW 10Ltr
 

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You can get under sink hot water heaters of various sizes.

Eg this one: Ariston Andris Lux Undersink Water Heater 2kW 10Ltr

Yes, those are the ones I was referring to, very commonly fitted in some workplaces. Toss up as to whether the ones like that with a boiler or the ones that have an instant heater are better. I think that, on balance, the instant ones are probably better for things like toilet washbasins, that only get used for a tiny volume a few times a day, but that the boiler ones might be better for something like a kitchen hot tap. I just liked the system Itho Daalderop had come up with that used a slightly larger boiling water boiler, plus a mixer to run the hot tap, seemed a neat way of doing both from the same hot water source.
 

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I have always been a bit derisory of instant showers, partly historical and part because of flow rates. However i have recently used a Mira Sport instant shower which also pump aerates and it has completely reversed my mind. In energy terms "just in time" always wins because of pipe runs/dead legs and start/stop losses. It is also cheaper out of CH use time and with increasing energy costs may become cheaper overall.
 

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I have always been a bit derisory of instant showers, partly historical and part because of flow rates. However i have recently used a Mira Sport instant shower which also pump aerates and it has completely reversed my mind. In energy terms "just in time" always wins because of pipe runs/dead legs and start/stop losses. It is also cheaper out of CH use time and with increasing energy costs may become cheaper overall.
Most of us on here have ToU electricity, this means morning showers can be taken using 5p/kWh electricity rather-than 15-30p/kWh electricity an instant shower would use.

In addition a DHW tank is a great place to put excess solar electricity, an instant shower cannot do that either.

On top of all that: instant showers and BEV charging points cannot be installed in the same property without some sort of system to loadshed.
 

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Most of us on here have ToU electricity, this means morning showers can be taken using 5p/kWh electricity rather-than 15-30p/kWh electricity an instant shower would use.

In addition a DHW tank is a great place to put excess solar electricity, an instant shower cannot do that either.

On top of all that: instant showers and BEV charging points cannot be installed in the same property without some sort of system to loadshed.
Yes thats what i do but other people cannot so a instant shower could be 2nd best. Most people are running the shower off a combination boiler and then what i say does apply.

I didnt think one shower and one charger would be a problem c 70amps but if it was fit a charger that would scale back whilst you had a shower.
 

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I didnt think one shower and one charger would be a problem c 70amps but if it was fit a charger that would scale back whilst you had a shower.
The maximum load for a single phase domestic supply is either 13.8 kVA or 15 kVA (depends on the DNO - our fairly new 100 A fused supply is 15 kVA). That means that a shower (typically around 9 kW to 10 kW) plus a 32 A charge point would exceed the maximum load set by the DNO unless the charge point could load limit to stay below the 65 A maximum.

There seems to be a fairly common assumption that the fuse rating sets the maximum load, but in reality the fuse rating is just that needed to protect the cables downstream of it. A 100 A fuse is OK for protecting 25mm² tails, whereas older 16mm² tails need protecting by a fuse no larger than 80 A. In both cases the supply power rating will be determined by whatever the DNO had set for the connection, not the fuse ratings.
 

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The maximum load for a single phase domestic supply is either 13.8 kVA or 15 kVA (depends on the DNO - our fairly new 100 A fused supply is 15 kVA).
How does this get enforced? For the lay person on a ToU tariff like GO or Agile, sees a nice cheap rate period, wants to stack everything into it, assuming you can take it up to the limit, how does the DNO detect and enforce it? Would energy suppliers need to start looking at the half hourly readings or the DNO perhaps would be allowed to view them? Genuinely curious.

Also could a 7kW car charger, 3-6kW immersion, home batteries (not sure on size, say 10kWh, pick a suitable size inverter), dish washer and washing machine be able to go over that 13.8 or 15kVA? Thats the load I'd look to stack on our GO 4hr slot if I had the funds to get a home battery, and maybe up the 3kW immersion to a double for 2x3kW. Could even feasibly add some SunAmps to the mix if GO stays below say 8p/kWh (to beat our biomass cost). Ultimately I'd look to get solar to put as much into them as possible but assume you wanted to power it all off 4hrs of GO, would that blow it all up?
 

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Yes thats what i do but other people cannot so a instant shower could be 2nd best. Most people are running the shower off a combination boiler and then what i say does apply.

I didnt think one shower and one charger would be a problem c 70amps but if it was fit a charger that would scale back whilst you had a shower.
1) A shower isn't so much of a problem because the energy wasted heating up the boiler/water in the pipe is trivial compared with the energy actually used. It isn't comparable with hand/dish washing.
There are a few ways round it.

2) You cannot just say: My shower is 10kW and the BEV charging point is 7.4kW, 45A + 32A = 77A so my 100A fuse will be hunky dory! The 100A fuse protects the supply cable is doesn't determine how much power you are permitted to consume. Most supply agreements from the DNO will be 13.8kW (60A), you also have to take notice of other loads in the property. Toaster, kettle, washing machine, dishwasher, induction hob, etc.. Howe can you be sure they won't coincide with the shower/BEV charger?

3) Electric showers are horrible for grid stability. Lots of people have a shower when they get home from work. 10kW right when the grid is at its most carbon-intensive and when it is stretched furthest really isn't a good idea.
 

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How does this get enforced?
It basically doesn't!

However you are supposed to inform the DNO when you have a BEV charging point/heat pump/whatever installed. A guy I know got a notice telling him do discontinue using his charging point immediately just after it was installed. He was only allowed to use it after the DNO had attached equipment to measure his peak demand for a week to determine he wasn't a threat to the local supply.

I know someone else who blew his main fuse during the Octopus Go cheap period. The DNO has cheerfully replaced it for him without somuch as a comment.
 

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Ours is a nothing special Barratt box home and we are down for 18kVA so hopefully newer housing is catching up with demands - albeit we do sometimes push this a bit with 2x EV chargers & house battery overnight....
 
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