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It basically doesn't!
Had a feeling that would be the case!

I know someone else who blew his main fuse during the Octopus Go cheap period. The DNO has cheerfully replaced it for him without somuch as a comment.
We blew ours the first winter after moving in before renovating. Old boy who sold us the house told us all the storage heaters work fine, which actually meant they all turn on when they're meant to, but not when they're charged! So one very cold night, we had all the storage heaters set to come on at staggered times, but the early ones didnt switch off, so when the later ones came along with the immersion, dishwasher and washing machine, pop went the supply side fuse! 😲 :ROFLMAO:
 

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What proportion of UK energy is consumed by crypto currency mining, does anyone know? I know in some countries it is pretty significant.
I'm surprised this isn't getting a look in, an unnecessary drain on the electric grid at a time of high prices.
 

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The Coire Glas pumped hydro storage development has taken a symbolic step forward as ground was broken on the project for the first time.

Contractors from BAM Ritchies began work near Kilfinnan Farm on Wednesday 3 November (pictured). The activity is part of Kilfinnan Road Ground Investigation Works, which will help the Coire Glas team to assess the options for upgrading the Kilfinnan Road to enable the main construction works that are scheduled to commence from 2024.

Ground broken on Coire Glas project — Coire Glas
Pre construction scope. I wonder who is funding this.

Possibly funded by sale of retail business to Ovo, which means former employees based in Perth are now funding this with their own loss of jobs.
 

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How does this get enforced? For the lay person on a ToU tariff like GO or Agile, sees a nice cheap rate period, wants to stack everything into it, assuming you can take it up to the limit, how does the DNO detect and enforce it? Would energy suppliers need to start looking at the half hourly readings or the DNO perhaps would be allowed to view them? Genuinely curious.

Also could a 7kW car charger, 3-6kW immersion, home batteries (not sure on size, say 10kWh, pick a suitable size inverter), dish washer and washing machine be able to go over that 13.8 or 15kVA? Thats the load I'd look to stack on our GO 4hr slot if I had the funds to get a home battery, and maybe up the 3kW immersion to a double for 2x3kW. Could even feasibly add some SunAmps to the mix if GO stays below say 8p/kWh (to beat our biomass cost). Ultimately I'd look to get solar to put as much into them as possible but assume you wanted to power it all off 4hrs of GO, would that blow it all up?

As already mentioned, right now it doesn't, but the DNOs are starting to monitor areas where they are getting thermal issues with PMTs and sub-stations. They've been using thermal imaging surveys to locate dodgy terminations and transformer faults for some time, but one of the local DNO people told me a while ago that they are starting to see more overheating than they used to. My guess is that if this gets much worse they will start load monitoring and taking steps to deal with those that exceed their supply rating, given that it seems that getting the most out of some time of use tariffs is becoming more popular, with the advent of car charging and home battery systems.

It wouldn't surprise me to find that we end up with a system like France and a few other countries, where the tariff depends on the peak load. In France the standard supply is 6 kVA, and if you want more than this you have to pay a higher tariff. EDF enforce this by having a current sensitive circuit breaker on the incoming supply, that is set at whatever tariff maximum (between 3 kVA and 36 kVA) you have agreed on. If you exceed the maximum load the breaker trips and turns off all power. It can be reset easily, but is an effective way to restrict demand.
 

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As already mentioned, right now it doesn't, but the DNOs are starting to monitor areas where they are getting thermal issues with PMTs and sub-stations. They've been using thermal imaging surveys to locate dodgy terminations and transformer faults for some time, but one of the local DNO people told me a while ago that they are starting to see more overheating than they used to. My guess is that if this gets much worse they will start load monitoring and taking steps to deal with those that exceed their supply rating, given that it seems that getting the most out of some time of use tariffs is becoming more popular, with the advent of car charging and home battery systems.

It wouldn't surprise me to find that we end up with a system like France and a few other countries, where the tariff depends on the peak load. In France the standard supply is 6 kVA, and if you want more than this you have to pay a higher tariff. EDF enforce this by having a current sensitive circuit breaker on the incoming supply, that is set at whatever tariff maximum (between 3 kVA and 36 kVA) you have agreed on. If you exceed the maximum load the breaker trips and turns off all power. It can be reset easily, but is an effective way to restrict demand.
Gotta love capitalism, eh?

1. "You must change your entire house over to electricity because it's the future, and think of the polar bears..."

followed by

2. "You are now using so much electricity that the incentives we designed to make you move will be immediately rescinded and replaced by a system with costs higher than any human has ever seen.."

I know I'm exaggerating for effect, but that doesn't feel a million miles away from what's going on!
 

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As already mentioned, right now it doesn't, but the DNOs are starting to monitor areas where they are getting thermal issues with PMTs and sub-stations. They've been using thermal imaging surveys to locate dodgy terminations and transformer faults for some time, but one of the local DNO people told me a while ago that they are starting to see more overheating than they used to. My guess is that if this gets much worse they will start load monitoring and taking steps to deal with those that exceed their supply rating, given that it seems that getting the most out of some time of use tariffs is becoming more popular, with the advent of car charging and home battery systems.

It wouldn't surprise me to find that we end up with a system like France and a few other countries, where the tariff depends on the peak load. In France the standard supply is 6 kVA, and if you want more than this you have to pay a higher tariff. EDF enforce this by having a current sensitive circuit breaker on the incoming supply, that is set at whatever tariff maximum (between 3 kVA and 36 kVA) you have agreed on. If you exceed the maximum load the breaker trips and turns off all power. It can be reset easily, but is an effective way to restrict demand.
I'm sure people taking an electric shower as soon as they get home from work are creating a far bigger problem than those sucking a little more than 13.8kW during the cheap period.

(Unless a few people on the same phase from the same transformer are doing the same thing.)
 

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Gotta love capitalism, eh?

1. "You must change your entire house over to electricity because it's the future, and think of the polar bears..."

followed by

2. "You are now using so much electricity that the incentives we designed to make you move will be immediately rescinded and replaced by a system with costs higher than any human has ever seen.."

I know I'm exaggerating for effect, but that doesn't feel a million miles away from what's going on!
The two first likes on this post were from people who have solar and thus feel safe and warm. But don't worry, everyone else, the tax-finder general will find out how to have his wicked way with such miscreants! (e.g. a new generation of drone-equipped detector vans that "detect" solar panels and auto-applies the 21st century version of the window tax).
 

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(Unless a few people on the same phase from the same transformer are doing the same thing.)
I think this is the issue. It's not unusual to find a transformer that has a much higher load on one phase than the others. They try to balance things out as best they can, but the main way of doing this is just to have each house down a street on alternate phases (so house 1 is on L1, house 2 is on L2, house 3 is on L3, house 4 is on L1, etc). With lots of new estates now having underground supplies there's no easy way to swap houses around to try and get a better balance if there is a much higher load on one phase. Used to be that when most supplies were overhead they could just swap over the phases pretty easily at the top of the poles, doesn't even need proper live working, as overheads connect using insulation displacement connectors, so there's never any exposed live terminals.
 

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Discussion Starter · #149 ·
I have to admit that I thought I could readily draw up to 100 amps. My heat pump with its 10mm cable happily bounces up to 7.5 kw at the same time my car charges. And the dishwasher and washing machine play in the kitchen too. And being an insomniac I am often prowling around making tea in the wee small hours. Whilst the car will steadily draw 7 kw other things jump around but frequently the IHD is showing 16 kw for 20 minutes at a time. I think I managed to draw 64 kWh over 4 hours the other night.
 

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I have to admit that I thought I could readily draw up to 100 amps. My heat pump with its 10mm cable happily bounces up to 7.5 kw at the same time my car charges. And the dishwasher and washing machine play in the kitchen too. And being an insomniac I am often prowling around making tea in the wee small hours. Whilst the car will steadily draw 7 kw other things jump around but frequently the IHD is showing 16 kw for 20 minutes at a time. I think I managed to draw 64 kWh over 4 hours the other night.

To give an idea of the actual load the DNO expects to see, I counted the number of houses that are connected to our 100 kVA PMT when out for a walk earlier. That transformer is supplying 17 houses in total, so an average of just 5.88 kVA per house. Our house has a 15 kVA supply from it (according to the paperwork from when I had the supply first put in), so it looks as if our DNO is using an assumed diversity of around 35% or thereabouts. In other words, they don't expect all the houses to be drawing anything close to their 15 kVA limit at the same time, as if they did then the PMT would probably start to get pretty warm.
 

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To give an idea of the actual load the DNO expects to see, I counted the number of houses that are connected to our 100 kVA PMT when out for a walk earlier. That transformer is supplying 17 houses in total, so an average of just 5.88 kVA per house. Our house has a 15 kVA supply from it (according to the paperwork from when I had the supply first put in), so it looks as if our DNO is using an assumed diversity of around 35% or thereabouts. In other words, they don't expect all the houses to be drawing anything close to their 15 kVA limit at the same time, as if they did then the PMT would probably start to get pretty warm.
So if I get all the neighbours to stick their leccy heating on during the day, should be able to draw what I like at night while they use nothing? :ROFLMAO: I did try to get some of them onto ToU tariffs but they been somehow conditioned to think its ECO7 and its bad. A few have even ripped out old storage heaters to replace them with plain electric radiators thinking somehow that saves them money. The mind does boggle!
 

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So if I get all the neighbours to stick their leccy heating on during the day, should be able to draw what I like at night while they use nothing? :ROFLMAO: I did try to get some of them onto ToU tariffs but they been somehow conditioned to think its ECO7 and its bad. A few have even ripped out old storage heaters to replace them with plain electric radiators thinking somehow that saves them money. The mind does boggle!

I can understand the stigma attached to Economy 7, many people found storage heaters expensive to run and not that effective. I think it's the best thing since sliced bread. We've been running with around 96% or so of our electricity usage during the E7 period for a couple of months or so now, so the average we're paying is under 9p/kWh. I can see storage heating making a comeback before too long, especially some of the better systems, like the big "storage boiler" things. They were very good, and some are still going decades after they stopped making them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #153 ·
To give an idea of the actual load the DNO expects to see, I counted the number of houses that are connected to our 100 kVA PMT when out for a walk earlier. That transformer is supplying 17 houses in total, so an average of just 5.88 kVA per house. Our house has a 15 kVA supply from it (according to the paperwork from when I had the supply first put in), so it looks as if our DNO is using an assumed diversity of around 35% or thereabouts. In other words, they don't expect all the houses to be drawing anything close to their 15 kVA limit at the same time, as if they did then the PMT would probably start to get pretty warm.
I have a suspicion that our village (modern and rapidly expanding) is likely to be the cause of some problems. Whilst SSEN put in a big fat red cable some years ago about a 1,000 new homes have been built. Originally there was no gas here so some of us remained with oil heating but are now moving to heat pumps. At the same time there is a fairly wealthy bunch of pensioners who have lived here since the 80s buying EVs along with newcomer well off professionals. I foresee a red hot transformer!
 

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Discussion Starter · #154 ·
I can understand the stigma attached to Economy 7, many people found storage heaters expensive to run and not that effective. I think it's the best thing since sliced bread. We've been running with around 96% or so of our electricity usage during the E7 period for a couple of months or so now, so the average we're paying is under 9p/kWh. I can see storage heating making a comeback before too long, especially some of the better systems, like the big "storage boiler" things. They were very good, and some are still going decades after they stopped making them.
I can see that a mixed solution of heat pump and storage heater might solve installation issues for some. The small heat pumps require less water in the systems to prevent cycling, so rather than put buffer tanks in and more complex plumbing, it may be far easier and cost effective to put a heat pump in and a couple of storage heaters to manage cold spells or severe weather. No need for 28 mm pipes with heat pumps 8 kw or smaller.
 

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I have a suspicion that our village (modern and rapidly expanding) is likely to be the cause of some problems. Whilst SSEN put in a big fat red cable some years ago about a 1,000 new homes have been built. Originally there was no gas here so some of us remained with oil heating but are now moving to heat pumps. At the same time there is a fairly wealthy bunch of pensioners who have lived here since the 80s buying EVs along with newcomer well off professionals. I foresee a red hot transformer!

I think it's going to be a fairly widespread issue before too long, TBH. There are definitely some areas where things like EVs, home battery storage etc are likely to become more popular.

I can see that a mixed solution of heat pump and storage heater might solve installation issues for some. The small heat pumps require less water in the systems to prevent cycling, so rather than put buffer tanks in and more complex plumbing, it may be far easier and cost effective to put a heat pump in and a couple of storage heaters to manage cold spells or severe weather. No need for 28 mm pipes with heat pumps 8 kw or smaller.

We have a heat pump driven storage heater system for our heating, plus a phase change thermal battery for hot water (electrically heated), plus 21 kWh of battery storage, plus two EVs, so I suspect we are close to being a "worst case" for the DNO. The heat pump system works very well. Runs at around 1 kW overnight to heat the floor slab, which then gives off heat into the house over the following day (or two if it's not that cold).
 

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I can understand the stigma attached to Economy 7, many people found storage heaters expensive to run and not that effective. I think it's the best thing since sliced bread. We've been running with around 96% or so of our electricity usage during the E7 period for a couple of months or so now, so the average we're paying is under 9p/kWh. I can see storage heating making a comeback before too long, especially some of the better systems, like the big "storage boiler" things. They were very good, and some are still going decades after they stopped making them.
We're currently averaging 8.68p/kWh, using GO to heat our hot water, EV and anything else I can schedule overnight (dishwasher/washing machine). We've no mains gas, next best option is biomass @~7p/kWh. Neighbours are currently paying something close to 25p/kWh heating houses and hot water on electric during the day because they are too stubborn against ToU and ECO7 to swap and shift their usage! Costing them a fortune but refuse to see the alternative. To add to this energy crisis, the pellet man has had the audacity to put the pellet prices up 3% too, the cheek (first time in 5 years :ROFLMAO:)
 

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We're currently averaging 8.68p/kWh, using GO to heat our hot water, EV and anything else I can schedule overnight (dishwasher/washing machine). We've no mains gas, next best option is biomass @~7p/kWh. Neighbours are currently paying something close to 25p/kWh heating houses and hot water on electric during the day because they are too stubborn against ToU and ECO7 to swap and shift their usage! Costing them a fortune but refuse to see the alternative. To add to this energy crisis, the pellet man has had the audacity to put the pellet prices up 3% too, the cheek (first time in 5 years :ROFLMAO:)
Our problem with Go is twofold, in that the heating takes more than 4 or 5 hours to heat the slab, so we really need a longer period to allow it to warm up right through, so we have enough heat for the next day, plus we can get pretty close to hitting 15 kVA if I were to try and get everything into a 4 hour window. Not helped by having two EVs, and one of them being an inefficient beast with a 90 kWh battery . . .
 

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I have to admit that I thought I could readily draw up to 100 amps.
I did the same when I moved into an old property which had a 100A main fuse. However, I found that with an off-peak load, when the total load exceeded about 60A the main fuse got hot to touch (suspect contact later found in the fuseholder) and the old Midlands Electricity Board were happy to bring all three phases into the house (they were already available at the eaves, possibly because the house had once been part of a farm). Putting the timeswitched off-peak board onto one phase and the on-peak board onto a second phase cured the problem. I have since done a major re-jig involving changing from an overhead to an underground supply and splitting the house into three parts, each on a different phase.

I remember reading that some DNO's (or their predecessors) used consumption figures from meter readings to look for areas where their local distribution network might be overloaded before going out and doing field measurements.
 

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As already mentioned, right now it doesn't, but the DNOs are starting to monitor areas where they are getting thermal issues with PMTs and sub-stations. They've been using thermal imaging surveys to locate dodgy terminations and transformer faults for some time, but one of the local DNO people told me a while ago that they are starting to see more overheating than they used to. My guess is that if this gets much worse they will start load monitoring and taking steps to deal with those that exceed their supply rating, given that it seems that getting the most out of some time of use tariffs is becoming more popular, with the advent of car charging and home battery systems.

It wouldn't surprise me to find that we end up with a system like France and a few other countries, where the tariff depends on the peak load. In France the standard supply is 6 kVA, and if you want more than this you have to pay a higher tariff. EDF enforce this by having a current sensitive circuit breaker on the incoming supply, that is set at whatever tariff maximum (between 3 kVA and 36 kVA) you have agreed on. If you exceed the maximum load the breaker trips and turns off all power. It can be reset easily, but is an effective way to restrict demand.
But this is long standing EdF arrangement. Might take a while to retrospectively apply to UK?
 

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But this is long standing EdF arrangement. Might take a while to retrospectively apply to UK?

I agree, but the whole basis for smart meters originally was to be able to just this, curtail loads remotely. It's why every smart meter has a built in remotely controlled isolator switch, so the DNO/supplier can turn off any supply provided by one remotely, should the terms of the supply contract be broken or if there is a need to curtail demand during a peak demand condition. The idea of including a 30 minute billing option was secondary to the key requirement to be able to use smart meters to curtail demand when needed, and to allow a phased restart in the event of a major outage.
 
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