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I have been challenged (?) to put an end to the Thread 'Electricity Prices set to fall" so here goes all ye of little faith!

Of course it is not just of interest to us EV drivers but also for households too.

European Gas reserves are rising quickly, particularly Germany which had 32% of its storage full 2 weeks ago and now up to 45%. It might be able to fill its salt caverns by September at this rate though heaven forbid it is using Russian Gas!!
 

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I have been challenged (?) to put an end to the Thread 'Electricity Prices set to fall" so here goes all ye of little faith!

Of course it is not just of interest to us EV drivers but also for households too.

European Gas reserves are rising quickly, particularly Germany which had 32% of its storage full 2 weeks ago and now up to 45%. It might be able to fill its salt caverns by September at this rate though heaven forbid it is using Russian Gas!!
The French nuclear corrosion debacle is keeping spot prices quite high right now, and the uncertainty there is hammering gas futures as that the ‘replacement’ power source come winter. Every windy day over summer will reduce the gas risk slightly as would a windy and warm autumn.
 

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If the gas storage is full it will only keep Germany going for about 2months without input in winter?

I just dont see how UK energy prices can reduce unless we can stop our supplies going abroad or the world market price drops and i dont see either happening any time soon.

I only hope that these high fuel prices encourage people to look at their consumption. My son visited friends recently and they had 2 televisions permantly on during the day with nobody watching.
 

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I liked the: "Electricity Prices set to fall" title!

The fact that it seems so out of place now reminds me of how dramatically things have changed in the last few months. When that thread was started we were in an unusual position with a few nukes offline and little-to-no wind. Prices had risen dramatically but this was assumed by everyone to be temporary.

Then Putin rolled into Ukraine and it now appears that the high prices are here to stay.

I've been saying for many years that energy was too cheap. The price didn't reflect the damage caused to mankind in the form of climate change. If something is expensive we conserve it and use it carefully. That said, we need to ensure that the low-paid, sick, or disabled can afford to get about and keep their houses warm. I've long argued for a negative standing charge paid for by a higher unit price. (I'm sure there are some people on here who are bored of me banging on about it). However the powers that be seem to be marching in the opposite direction.
 

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I think whether prices stay as they are, increase or decrease, what we should all take away from this is awareness of how much energy we waste as a society. Lights on in shops even when they're closed, TVs left on (as someone mentioned in an earlier post), can't be bothered to switch to LED bulbs, electric heaters on to keep feet warm, refusal to layer up so people just stick the heating on, the list goes go. For a start maybe big supermarkets should be mandated to turn down lights, have enclosed refrigerators rather than the open chest version that are common across all supermarkets.

But rather than waste money on heat pump grants, why doesn't the government actually subsidise solar panels - or do they need us to be totally dependent on the grid?
 

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I'm disappointed that the self-appointed thread police seem to have succeeded in their attempt at disrupting a perfectly reasonable long-running thread that many people have made good contributions to. And why? For no purpose other than their sense of "order".

Have we become such sheep that we bow to every request to regulate our behaviour?
 

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I think whether prices stay as they are, increase or decrease, what we should all take away from this is awareness of how much energy we waste as a society. Lights on in shops even when they're closed, TVs left on (as someone mentioned in an earlier post), can't be bothered to switch to LED bulbs, electric heaters on to keep feet warm, refusal to layer up so people just stick the heating on, the list goes go. For a start maybe big supermarkets should be mandated to turn down lights, have enclosed refrigerators rather than the open chest version that are common across all supermarkets.

But rather than waste money on heat pump grants, why doesn't the government actually subsidise solar panels - or do they need us to be totally dependent on the grid?
We could have much lower energy prices if we didn't care about consistency of supply. We could also keep our spaces cooler, but we need to increase capacity in the health care sector substnatially. The consumer price cap is either completely meaningless or it increases the long-term expected cost of energy. There are no simple solutions. Yes, we have allowed sectors to get by without paying for externalities for years, both consciously and unconsciously.

The problem with the grid is keeping it stable. The cost of this is going to rise substantially as we add more intermittent and local generation. Batteries solve the shortest cycle problems, but not the week-on-week issues in the winter. Again, if you don't mind no heating for 5-7 days when it gets down to -10 at night, then not a problem.
 

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Lights on in shops even when they're closed, TVs left on (as someone mentioned in an earlier post), can't be bothered to switch to LED bulbs, electric heaters on to keep feet warm, refusal to layer up so people just stick the heating on,
Lights on in shops when closed is a security measure to put burglars off, allegedly.
When I moved in to my current house about 4 years ago it was full of incandescent bulbs. All got replaced with LEDs, but for people really strapped for cash (as I think the previous owner of this house was) the short term cost of spending the price of your next meal on replacing a bulb that is still working, or replacing a broknen bulb with a £5 LED instead of a 70p filament bulb, is a disincentive.

But rather than waste money on heat pump grants, why doesn't the government actually subsidise solar panels - or do they need us to be totally dependent on the grid?
The old FIT system was a sort of subsidy. Since that was instituted, solar panels have got a lot cheaper, and FIT has been abolished, but electricity providers are required to pay for exported electricity, so there's some support there.
What the government should have spent on, decades ago when we were rolling in North Sea gas and oil, was insulation, and better building regulations for new houses. And perhaps not letting our gas storage infrastructure crumble.

An example of the building regs craziness: a former colleague lived in a new block of flats that had solar hot water panels. They were arranged so that you either had to have all your water heating provided by the solar panels, or all of it by gas. There was no way to combine the two. Obviously if you selected solar, your hot water was tepid at best much of the time, and nobody wanted that. But the builders were able to tick the box that said solar heating was provided and no doubt pocketed fat green energy grants for their efforts.
 

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I couldn't see it mentioned but Eleclink (the channel tunnel 1GW link to France) went live commercially yesterday.
No fanfare as far as I can tell over here and the only article stating it actually happened as planned is in French but the data suggests it is alive! See Here
 

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I have a concern that if the Chancellor ( under extreme pressure from all areas) offers some kind of enhanced “package” of support, this will, like the plug-in grant and the heat-pump grant and the solar-grant……just disappear into the wrong coffers…and actually PROLONG the pain rather than tackling the real problems, many highlighted above.
 

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I have a concern that if the Chancellor ( under extreme pressure from all areas) offers some kind of enhanced “package” of support, this will, like the plug-in grant and the heat-pump grant and the solar-grant……just disappear into the wrong coffers…and actually PROLONG the pain rather than tackling the real problems, many highlighted above.
Why can't they just send money directly using the winter fuel payments system?
 

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We could have much lower energy prices if we didn't care about consistency of supply. We could also keep our spaces cooler, but we need to increase capacity in the health care sector substnatially. The consumer price cap is either completely meaningless or it increases the long-term expected cost of energy. There are no simple solutions. Yes, we have allowed sectors to get by without paying for externalities for years, both consciously and unconsciously.

The problem with the grid is keeping it stable. The cost of this is going to rise substantially as we add more intermittent and local generation. Batteries solve the shortest cycle problems, but not the week-on-week issues in the winter. Again, if you don't mind no heating for 5-7 days when it gets down to -10 at night, then not a problem.
I think we are all coming around to MartinMoneySupermarket's view that the price cap is actually price fixing!
 

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The price cap is to stop cos milking the system from captivated customers. Before the throwing the doors open the price was pretty stable and cos would make big profits some years and lower next but those days went particularly when we became dependant on overseas suppliers of primary fuel.

Nowadays if there was no cap then all those gone bust companies would increase their prices to way above the cap to make ends meet so as is the case if operating on the spot market with very little edging.
 

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At the present price of PV and leccy then subsidies are not required and thats why its very difficult to find an installer.
Except PV is subsidised, though fossil sources get an even greater subsidy. The VAT differential is a direct subsidy. Not that this subsidy is inherently a bad, or good, thing. Technically not having to pay income tax on the self-consumed PV generation is a subsidy (falls under the tax expenditure area).
 

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Does that target ONLY the people that really need it?
As in 'do people that received winter fuel payments fall in the category of those that benefit from additional support?' or 'Does winter fuel payment cover all of those the need the support?'

Remember any scheme that tries to limit availability for people who are 'undeserving' will naturally exclude some number of 'deserving' – there is no free lunch. Depending on the starting ratios of 'deserving/underserving' even the best design schemes may exclude far more 'deserving' than they could hope to exclude 'undeserving'
 

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What the government should have spent on, decades ago when we were rolling in North Sea gas and oil, was insulation, and better building regulations for new houses. And perhaps not letting our gas storage infrastructure crumble.
Yes forgot to mention that - insulation is where we need grants. I have a solid brick house but can't justify the £10k+ it'll cost to add to my house. The savings with it will probably be significant.

There's a light shop I often drive past - it closes a 530pm however every single light piece for sale is always left on - I get it's advertising for the odd person walking by but really?

Then there's a garage - again, all lights left on when closed - even when the mechanic is away on holiday and its not open for a couple of weeks - still on. Anyway, I'm off to put the heating on - it's 21 in my living room right now but I like it to be 23 so I can wear shorts and t shirt at home.
 
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