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Will it ever happen ?
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246 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Is it worth doing any of these?

Static time-of-use energy tariffs

Different price bands for electricity throughout the day
Dependent on the time of day, day of the week, or season
Higher rates are applied when demand for electricity is greater
In some cases, installation of a smart electricity meter is required
Aim: To encourage you to use electricity at times when more electricity is available cheaply

Variable (or dynamic) price energy tariffs
Real-time or predictive prices for electricity throughout the day
Dependent on the time of day, day of the week, or season
Higher rates are applied when demand for electricity is greater
Prices may change as often as half-hourly
You can be notified of price changes in advance
Cannot be used in conjunction with prepayment meters
Aim: To encourage you to use electricity at times when more electricity is available cheaply
Supplier-controlled demand management systems

Third-party charge management schemes
Allows a third party to directly control charging of your electric vehicle (e.g. when and how quickly charging happens)
Generally requires a smart-enabled charge point
Aim: To allow a third party to control charging of your electric vehicle, so that they can balance supply and demand
For example…
You might use a smartphone app to specify:
The time at which you next need to use your vehicle
The amount of charge you require by that time
The third party would then control charging of your electric vehicle, endeavouring to:
Meet your requirements
Avoid delivering charge when demand for electricity is high

Vehicle-to-grid (V2G) systems

Electric vehicles can return energy stored in their batteries to the grid when electricity is in high demand
You can be compensated for making your EV battery power available.
Requires:
A V2G-enabled vehicle
A ‘two-way' charge point
Aim: To encourage you to provide energy to the grid so that overall demand for electricity can be met.

Smart charging technologies
Typically involves using a smart-enabled charge point or charging functions built into the vehicle
Can be used alongside time-of-use tariffs or other charging management schemes
Aim: To enable remote control and scheduling of charging
For example…
You could use the smart charging functions in your vehicle to schedule a start and stop time for charging to fit with the low tariff price bands in a static time-of-use tariff.
This means you would not have to plug in the vehicle at a specific time.

Mandatory curtailment
If energy management strategies such as time-of-use tariffs fail to reduce peak-time energy demands, then it may be necessary for third parties (e.g. network operators) to intervene. This may involve slowing down or pausing (‘curtailing’) charging of electric vehicles for a period in order to avoid a localised blackout or brownout.
Where such interventions are implemented, consumers may be able to specify charging requirements (such as indicating when a charge was ‘high’ priority). Any curtailment employment by third parties to manage supply-demand balance would then be considered alongside consumers’ needs.
 

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Will it ever happen ?
Joined
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246 Posts
Discussion Starter #2
Vehicle-to-grid (V2G) systems.

What's the chance of getting in your car and finding your charge at say 20%
because the grid has drained your batteries ? :mad:
 

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IMHO, Vehicle to Grid schemes in the UK context, will never be economically viable purely because the cost of the distributed equipment (DC high voltage inverter, connector to vehicle, etc) plus installation will always be way too high. Non starter.
 

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IMHO, Vehicle to Grid schemes in the UK context, will never be economically viable purely because the cost of the distributed equipment (DC high voltage inverter, connector to vehicle, etc) plus installation will always be way too high. Non starter.
...whereas I believe this is the inevitable future of EVs and the grid. Once the technology is standardised it will become much cheaper. The grid in its current form would not cope with the added demand for EV charging so the ability to shift the demand is necessary.
 

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I, too, believe V2G is the inevitable future of EV's and the grid. Also home batteries and neighbourhood sub-station batteries.

Tesla Bjorn have done a video with a bank of eNV200 connected via V2G. You set your schedule and how much charge you need, then just let the charger manage the charge for you.


Electric Nation have completed their trial of smart charging. I personally see smart charging as a stepping stone to V2G. Read about their findings here: News | Electric Nation


Smart charging and V2G both have problem where you may find your car wasn't charging during the time you plugged it in. I think this is easily solved by a mode setting on the charger. Normal mode charger operates in V2G or smart mode, it is managed based on your pre-set schedule, using cheapest electricity when possible. Urgent Charge mode will imminently start a charge, regardless of current electricity cost or grid overall demand.
 

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To be honest, it seems a very good idea, but it has the chance to go very wrong.

In principle, let's suppose I drive an electric car home, it's got 40% charge left, and I don't plan to drive again that day. Let's suppose I'm going to have a couple of glasses of wine over dinner, and I know I won't be driving until 8am tomorrow.

So I tell the car that it has until 8am to be back at 80%, and that's it. It might choose to dump almost all of the 40% charge into the grid to help with the evening demand; probably it'll be running my oven, and the power for my lights etc in the evening, with the view that it can then begin the charge from (say) 5% left to 80% overnight.

However, if the grid expresses that it's not able to supply much power overnight, it'll only take a couple of mornings of me coming out to a car going "hi! 32% charged, sorry" for me to switch V2G off.

I think it's got the potential to be great, but it'll need to be carefully managed to ensure that consumers don't have a bad experience of it & thus get cold feet.
 

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Will it ever happen ?
Joined
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246 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
To be honest, it seems a very good idea, but it has the chance to go very wrong.

In principle, let's suppose I drive an electric car home, it's got 40% charge left, and I don't plan to drive again that day. Let's suppose I'm going to have a couple of glasses of wine over dinner, and I know I won't be driving until 8am tomorrow.

So I tell the car that it has until 8am to be back at 80%, and that's it. It might choose to dump almost all of the 40% charge into the grid to help with the evening demand; probably it'll be running my oven, and the power for my lights etc in the evening, with the view that it can then begin the charge from (say) 5% left to 80% overnight.

However, if the grid expresses that it's not able to supply much power overnight, it'll only take a couple of mornings of me coming out to a car going "hi! 32% charged, sorry" for me to switch V2G off.

I think it's got the potential to be great, but it'll need to be carefully managed to ensure that consumers don't have a bad experience of it & thus get cold feet.
I get that but before you down that wine, you get a call and have to go out again say 3 hours after you started charging you would expect to have 65-70% but the grid has nicked it all, what do you do? Taxi?
 

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I get that but before you down that wine, you get a call and have to go out again say 3 hours after you started charging you would expect to have 65-70% but the grid has nicked it all, what do you do? Taxi?
You pop to the local rapid charger for 15 minutes?
 

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Is it worth doing any of these?

Static time-of-use energy tariffs

Different price bands for electricity throughout the day
Dependent on the time of day, day of the week, or season
Higher rates are applied when demand for electricity is greater
In some cases, installation of a smart electricity meter is required
Aim: To encourage you to use electricity at times when more electricity is available cheaply

Variable (or dynamic) price energy tariffs
Real-time or predictive prices for electricity throughout the day
Dependent on the time of day, day of the week, or season
Higher rates are applied when demand for electricity is greater
Prices may change as often as half-hourly
You can be notified of price changes in advance
Cannot be used in conjunction with prepayment meters
Aim: To encourage you to use electricity at times when more electricity is available cheaply
Supplier-controlled demand management systems

Third-party charge management schemes
Allows a third party to directly control charging of your electric vehicle (e.g. when and how quickly charging happens)
Generally requires a smart-enabled charge point
Aim: To allow a third party to control charging of your electric vehicle, so that they can balance supply and demand
For example…
You might use a smartphone app to specify:
The time at which you next need to use your vehicle
The amount of charge you require by that time
The third party would then control charging of your electric vehicle, endeavouring to:
Meet your requirements
Avoid delivering charge when demand for electricity is high

Vehicle-to-grid (V2G) systems

Electric vehicles can return energy stored in their batteries to the grid when electricity is in high demand
You can be compensated for making your EV battery power available.
Requires:
A V2G-enabled vehicle
A ‘two-way' charge point
Aim: To encourage you to provide energy to the grid so that overall demand for electricity can be met.

Smart charging technologies
Typically involves using a smart-enabled charge point or charging functions built into the vehicle
Can be used alongside time-of-use tariffs or other charging management schemes
Aim: To enable remote control and scheduling of charging
For example…
You could use the smart charging functions in your vehicle to schedule a start and stop time for charging to fit with the low tariff price bands in a static time-of-use tariff.
This means you would not have to plug in the vehicle at a specific time.

Mandatory curtailment
If energy management strategies such as time-of-use tariffs fail to reduce peak-time energy demands, then it may be necessary for third parties (e.g. network operators) to intervene. This may involve slowing down or pausing (‘curtailing’) charging of electric vehicles for a period in order to avoid a localised blackout or brownout.
Where such interventions are implemented, consumers may be able to specify charging requirements (such as indicating when a charge was ‘high’ priority). Any curtailment employment by third parties to manage supply-demand balance would then be considered alongside consumers’ needs.
Not being completely facetious, but define "worth".......
 

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Add AI to a lot of that and it becomes a bit easer provided your parameters are set well. I think that a variation of all the methods suggested it likely, with the introduction of self driving cars everything will change.
 
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