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ePedal - When exactly do the brake lights come on?

27K views 70 replies 18 participants last post by  Hairy Leafer 
#1 ·
On the test drive of new leaf, salesman commented that when in ePedal mode, lifting would make the brake light come on.

Surely it has to be a little more smart than that - stupid example, if I have my foot to the floor, then lift very slightly then I'm almost certainly still accelerating.

Reason for wanting to know, if balancing the pedal so as to coast, wouldn't want the brake lights to flicker on and off. Want the person behind to know when I'm braking, not letting a tiny bit of speed off.

Been wondering this but it's the kind of thing that's hard to know on the test drive unless you have a friend follow you around....

+1for a leaf40 forum please, admins
 
#2 ·
Coasting won’t bring the brake light on, neither will lifting off lightly and only decelerating lightly, once you lift off properly the brake lights will come on.

That is how it works on the Model S and pretty sure there is a threshold at which point the brake lights must come on. E.g. 15% braking, IIRC it is a legally required function.
Edit:
http://www.unece.org/fileadmin/DAM/trans/main/wp29/wp29regs/R13hr2e.pdf

Detailed in there.
 
#4 · (Edited)
I heard similar on the test drive when I asked, it's at a certain limit, though the salesman couldn't remember exactly what.

I'd be interested to know if it's based purely on the brake force being applied, or the actual deceleration of a car. For example going up a steep hill if I lift off the car will decelerate strongly even if i don't brake. So applying brake lights based on actual deceleration of the car would not mimic an ICE car.
 
#5 ·
Vehicle decelerations
Signal generation
≤ 0.7 m/s2
The signal shall not be generated
> 0.7 m/s2 and ≤ 1.3 m/s2
The signal may be generated
> 1.3 m/s2
The signal shall be generated

From the doc, there is hard limit for signal or not and an area between to allow for coasting etc. it is not linked to Regan it is linked to the rate of change of the vehicle speed.
 
#10 · (Edited)
Or they were just a douchbag following too close not paying attention, and got startled when they didn't have a bright red brake light to wake them from their slumber...:p

The lift off regenerative braking on my Ion is fairly modest at 70mph, not much more than engine braking on an ICE and I still get people coming up behind me too quickly when I lift off the throttle, due to the lack of applied brake lights. (I presume the car predates the regulations about brake light application with certain amounts of deceleration as it never applies the brake lights with throttle pedal only regen)

A couple of days ago on the motorway my dashcam caught a car in the far left lane (which was becoming an exit only lane) slow down and indicate to fit in a gap to the right to get out of the exit lane in plenty of time before it split off - the car slowed relatively quickly granted but it was nowhere near abrupt or emergency braking, only for a big furniture truck who was charging him down to swerve into the hard shoulder to avoid him and give a long angry toot at the car as it passed - when the truck was completely in the wrong for speeding and in no way maintaining a safe following distance! :mad:

I think there are just a lot of idiots out there that follow too close and have no conception of what a safe following distance is, brake lights or no brake lights. If you can't stop in time because the brake lights on the car in front of you didn't come on, you're still in the wrong for following too closely and not paying attention.
 
#9 ·
This, I like.
It suggests more consistent 'engine braking' than the current one.
Next to zero engine braking when you're at 100% in snow is scary.
Although I suppose you could argue using the brakes is using the brakes, whether it's the car applying them or you....
 
#22 ·
@DBMandrake Wise words indeed. The only lights you should be showing on a motorway are indicators unless of course, it's dark or foggy. Brakes should be for emergency use only.
Pet hates:
Middle lane hogging
No indication (especially at roundabouts - I could have been on my way if only you had shown some consideration)
Indicating after moving (I know you are a bad driver already - no need to advertise it)
Braking whenever a car comes in the opposite direction.
Being overtaken when I am travelling at the legally allowed maximum speed.
... I am sure there are many more ...
 
#29 ·
So I need to stick bluetac on the camera lens behind the mirror
Just looked at the car manual, there's a button on the steering wheel to switch it on or off and the status of it is shown on the steering wheel display icon on the dash display.
 
#30 ·
Is that speaking from experience or conjecture? Nissan however say the e-pedal is really for 90% of urban driving so you might be right.
 
#38 ·
This short video gives some idea what happens in both a Leaf and a Tesla when hands are off the steering. There maybe another one somewhere taking it right through to the stop, but that is hard to experiment with on a live motorway!
 
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#41 ·
Thanks I saw what happened but what happened worried me. Yes if we are driving and alert and healthy we can reassume full control but again what happens if we can't? That's the only piece that's missing in this question and it's pretty fundamental. I can't imagine it would have been skimped on or missed by the techies and H&S people surely!?
 
#39 ·
I will take my chances with the autonomous system and someone having a medical emergency behind the wheel over let’s say traditional car with cruise any day of the week.

I am pretty sure it is in the requirement’s somewhere to bring the car to a halt if insufficient input is detect over time, in terms of the Tesla that means coming to a controlled halt with the hazards on as the end point.
 
#44 ·
Arguably the cruise control would be worse as the car would be ploughing on in a straight line without slowing, at least with pro/auto pilot it will hopefully keep it in lane and bring it to a half.

Marginally better than running it into barrier / road furniture/ stationary vehicles / other people etc. delete as applicable.
 
#45 ·
Yes we are in agreement here but doesn't propilot disengage when it doesn't sense your hand on the wheel? If so then it won't be doing any steering while it's doing ACC which would also result in ploughing you into a barrier or ditch or central reservation? Or am I missing something?

That's why I do hope that we can get the missing pieces of information confirmed somehow - without the need for someone risking their own life in the process ;)
 
#47 ·
No, it is said to bring the car to a safe halt on the left and put the hazards on. @Leo Moran / @aaronr have you tried a dead man's handle stop?

Unless you know for sure I don't think you should say no to me. There's no value at all in conjecture or who thinks what should happen. The reason for my question was for facts, Im not trying to win any debate. It's just that I've seen actual video of propilot NOT pulling over/ stopping safely/hazard lights on.

I think we all agree on what exactly we would like it to do. Now all that's left is to know what it actually does in reality.

Please don't read this the wrong way. It's hard to express oneself in writing sometimes. I'd just like to know the reality not the ideal.

I might email nissan ev to get the answer rather than expect someone here attempt to find out.

If I get an answer I'll post it here.
 
#48 · (Edited)
Unless you know for sure I don't think you should say no to me
Perhaps go for a test drive and try it if it is of concern to you?
I've certainly seen it shown in one of the YouTube videos, but TBH, I haven't got the time to watch them all again to try and find it. It wasn't actually one of Bjorn's.
 
#49 ·
Did I see my name mentioned there?...well I learn't something yesterday....

Alex F Noble & Son in Edinburgh have the first Nissan Leaf off the production line which is a beautiful Pearlescent White in colour. It's an Acenta with a lot of extras, the paint job alone over £1k....but it's also fitted with cruise control and lane departure assist and though the buttons are separate and in different locations, I was told that it differed from my Pro Pilot in that it doesn't have the safe braking. As for the suggestion of testing the emergency braking I'm perfectly happy to try it out for you....as long as you're the one standing in front of me having signed a disclaimer...
 
#51 ·
As for the suggestion of testing the emergency braking I'm perfectly happy to try it out for you
Thanks Leo, I'll pass on that, but that's not the query! It's should the driver become incapacitated and unable to hold the steering wheel, will ProPilot bring the car to a safe stop at the left hand side of the road with the flashers on? I've heard it does!
 
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#52 ·
Guys here are 2 vids of reviewers using Japanese models (not sure if they are prod or development models) where the reviewer says the car just wants to hand control back at the first sign of trouble - no safe breaking to a stop.

- Electrified Journeys in Japan

- fully charged show

I'll still try to email nissan ev for clarification and let you all know
 
#54 ·
I think someone posted (I couldn't find it) about someone with a death wish might put a weight on the steering wheel to defeat the safety feature. That's exactly what would happen if someone collapsed onto the steering wheel. Any test needs to check that it's hands on the rim that is detected and not a dead weight on the wheel.
 
#56 ·
Hahaha oh no no no please no! :) It's headed that way already though to be fair. Already have internal mics, GPS and gsm tracking and OTA updates and telemetry. (But what about data protection considerations?)

Not long before we will have auto fines applied for minor infractions and an onboard printer to print out the ticket before big brother automatically deducts 2 credits from our account...
What a fun free, sterile PC, eco friendly, homogeneous future awaits us :(
 
#62 ·
Sorry Feverdog I don't understand your comment. If the pro pilot isn't activated then it's just a normal car with normal parameters, ie, take you're hands off the wheel and the car goes where it wants to go. The 'hands off the wheel" is a safeguard when the pro pilot is activated. If you remove your hands the system is supposed to give you plenty of warning and if you don't react, it should bring the vehicles eventually to a safe halt.
 
#63 ·
ah okies - yup thanks that's what I meant - was just concerned it would stop the car too whilst pro pilot was off - in case the sensors on the wheel were to actually stop working....so at least should it break, it's only the pro pilot mode affected and not the whole ability to drive the car
 
#64 ·
I think I have the drift of what you say. The lane assist is not quite a total thing, you can still steer the car if you want it's just that the wheel puts up a bit of resistance. Imagine when you turn the engine off and the power assisted steering goes off, the you can still move the wheel but you have to use a bit of pressure, the Pro Pilot is like that.....but not as severe.
 
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