[Shiny]

I would like to replication what Glyn did with his eNV200.

Looking for help and advice, van is ordered but I have no measurements or specifications

I'm finding an all electric EV setup interesting in terms of rethinking the norms of power charging and consumption. For example, since we need to recharge the main battery when travelling we can also charge devices / cook at the same time. The "leisure" battery maybe does not need to have the same capacity than in a traditional van because the DC-DC charger can top-up when the van is turned on, and no driving needs to be done (unlike alternator).

Requirements:

• Heating and AC during night
• 12V Aux battery supplies 12V DC power and 240V via inverter (Phoenix 1200W)
• Solar panel charges 12V Aux battery (thinking 400W panel)
• Mains hook-up allows charging and 240V power overnight if available
• Support 2 x 800W Induction hobs (all electric install) (assume no max power since 800W + 800W > 1200W)

Questions:

• Can OEM battery support inverter draw?
• Will solar panels support Fridge consumpion during the day?
• Is there a limit to the DC-DC built in charging provided from the Van?
• Could the DC-DC charger support induction hob cooking for 20 mins (for example), how do I measure the DC-DC charge rate? Smart shunt?

Current thoughts:

• Upgrade 12V aux battery. Not sure whether AGM or LiFePO4? Max physical dimensions? Minimum capacity?
• No point having Multiplus, since van has built in DC-DC charger. Hoping solar will charge battery during day and support daily consumption.
• Need to split shore power to van charger and 240V circuits, so it's not going through the battery (inverter) when not needed
• Cooking may only be possible when at charging station or on camping hook-up. Depending on above

 

[Shiny]

Related Threads (similar questions):

Does leaving the “ignition” on damage ev

Title says it all but if I were to say leave the ev on for a length of time will it damage anything ? I use a 1500w inverter on for my power tools so need it on for a while . Thanks in advance

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Answered here: Can anybody solve this inverter issue

How to find charge specifications for 12v...

Hi, Just stumbled upon this forum while searching on Google. My girlfriend and I bought an E-208 4 months ago and we're really happy with it. She uses it every day to go to work and with the current hike in gas prices we're even happier that the car might be able to pay itself home just by not...

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Using vehicles 12v battery as the leisure battery for a...

Hi guys, I posted this in the e-NV200 forum too, as that's the vehicle I have, but it's quite a general point so might be of interest to everyone... So I'm just planning the electrics system for my e-NV200 camper conversion and had a thought... In the past (in ICE campers) I've always used...

www.speakev.com

 

[Ross Macdougall]

Very interested in this... I'm still looking at options and I'm sure there are probably lots of mistakes

1000W is probably way more than I actually require, but I believe would need a 100Ah battery. The Renogy unit has UPS so I could utilise 4-5A from hook-up and simultaneously charge using my ESVE adjusting the rate depending on what can be supplied. This would negate the need for any switching between inverter and 240V shore supply (?).

Does anyone know of the OEM 12V battery can safely be swapped for a LiFePO4 100Ah unit i.e. can the DC-DC supply enough power (how does it regulate?) and can cope with this chemistry?

I wasn't considering solar, but if I did then would a DC-DC battery charger with MPPT be a sensible option to manage charging from solar and the 12V starter battery?

 

[Shiny]

Good questions!

1000W is probably way more than I actually require, but I believe would need a 100Ah battery. The Renogy unit has UPS so I could utilise 4-5A from hook-up and simultaneously charge using my ESVE adjusting the rate depending on what can be supplied. This would negate the need for any switching between inverter and 240V shore supply (?).

This was my other thought, if EV DC-DC charger can cope with the inverter then the van can be charging and no need for separate 240V shore circuit, alway go via the inverter. But would it affect the 12V battery being discharged and charged with a 1200W draw? Effecting the number of cycles and reducing life. Regardless of the type of battery, it would be better to avoid if possible.

Can you provide more information about your portable ESVE charger. Is it from AliExpress or UK. I like the ones with multiple input cables (EU, UK, CEE) to T2. I believe Glyn had one which he modified to have two outputs T2 and CEE.

Does anyone know of the OEM 12V battery can safely be swapped for a LiFePO4 100Ah unit i.e. can the DC-DC supply enough power (how does it regulate?) and can cope with this chemistry?

Reading the forums for information, it seems they don't OEM Lithium batteries because of the cost to the consumer. To me that means if I can afford the upgrade then it should work. Big Assumption! But for me it also depends on how much space is physically available for a bigger sized battery. It does not require the peak for starting, with an EV just for running 12V services. From my understanding.

I wasn't considering solar, but if I did then would a DC-DC battery charger with MPPT be a sensible option to manage charging from solar and the 12V starter battery?

Are you considering a second battery? Why would you need a DC-DC charger? What are you going to connect it to? From starter (aux) battery to what?
I was thinking with the fridge running all day and wifi devices then the Solar would charge the 12V battery during sun hours, until we return and turn on the van to perform the DC-DC top up, using built-in DC-DC charger. With enough solar, we might not even need the top-up the 12V. Also depends if the 12V OEM battery supports the mppt charge rate (again if it supports DC-DC then should be OK). Otherwise, another reason to change the battery.

 

[Shiny]

Other thought I have is to buy a EcoFlow (or equivalent) portable battery station. Ignore the Van 12V aux battery, run everything off the power station, recharge power station via solar, or via cigarette lighter plug.

I have seen videos where the solar panels have provided enough power to charge a Telsa via the power station's inverter!

Sounds great, but again not sure about the lifetime of the power station doing this.

 

[Tandy0]

I wonder if you could tap in to the type 2 socket to connect another charger for a lithium ion battery for the caravan items.

I recently got two of these from Amazon: Ultramax 100Ah 12V LITHIUM LiFePO4 Battery for Leisure, Solar, Wind and Off-grid 12 volt: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics & Photo

It comes with a 10 amp charger, so presumably would be fully charged in about 11 hours. Then I would connect maybe a 2500 watt inverter to it for any mains items I need to run.

 

[Shiny]

This what @donald mentioned here: Using vehicles 12v battery as the leisure battery for a...

The other way to do it, and safer, is to use a separate leisure battery to your high power inverter running your electricals. When your leisure battery is going a bit flat, connect it with jump leads to your EVs battery and then start the EV up. You'll need at least 10V to start it, so obviously don't flatten your leisure battery too far. The EV will then see the combined battery as its 12V and charge them both up.

Having a spare battery and jump leads also means that if the 12V on the EV is the one that goes flat, you can jump start it!!

Maybe the leisure battery could be permanently connected in series? But this has the risk of draining both batteries. Would batteries need to be matching for this? Capacity and battery type?

 

[iforpowell]

I have an Vivaro-e on order with the intent to convert it to a camper so interested in this stuff.

400W solar is more than enough for a standard small compressor fridge. You would probably still be good on the dullest of winter day with that.

Personally I am looking for a bigger inverter. I have a 3000W in my curent ICE van with a big LiFePO4 battery. I have an induction hob which draws 1500W untill I manage to turn it down to 800W for normal cooking which takes a couple of seconds. I also have a Microwave which is very inefficent and draws getting on for 1800W. I also use a small 600W travle kettle. I can have the Hob and Microwave on together with the 3000W inverter but it's really pushing the 12V setup. Inverter has 70mm cabeling to the battery.

I am not sure what I will end up with for the new van. It will depend if I can fit stuff under the bonnet or not. If stuff fits then I will posibly have a seperate 12 lithium battery and something like my current inverter. If stuff is not fitting then I will probably look at a 48V battery setup in the back somewhere and some suitable DC DC converters. Bigger battery in the back with 400-500W sollar would basically very rerly need to be charged form other sources. I would look to just have a manaully controled DC DC converter that could be enabled when charging the traction battery or when driving if needed to top it up.

 

[DumfriesDik]

Have a dig around on Motorhome Fun

 

[Dan87]

Don’t do anything that will load the DC-DC converter other than standard. I learnt this the hard way . Just get a power bank . I have a bluetti and it’s awesome

 

[Shiny]

Tell me more Dan! What happened? Actually (for fear for voiding the warrant) I have bought an EcoFlow Delta and plan to use that as the power source. I can charge it via the 12v Cigarette charger and via solar.

 

[meetyg]

Hi there.
While I'm not a camper guy, I can give my two cents here in regards to changing the 12v Lead-acid to Lifepo4:

I have been working on building my own 12v Lifepo4 as my EV's "starter" battery (instead of the heavy an inefficient SLA battery that the car comes with).

While I know that some Nissan Leaf owners have done this swap, I would strongly recommend against it. Especially in any PSA/Stellantis vehicles like my Corsa-e (or the Vivaro).

The main problem is that EVs have an onboard DC-DC converter. This converter is usually constant voltage (usually above 14v), which means that it's not suitable for properly charging a Lifepo4 battery (or any Lithium really).
I went through many loop-holes to try to step down the voltage and limit the current with my DIY Lifepo4. While I was partially successful, the car didn't like the Lifepo4 and would bring up a number of warnings/faults.

In the end I decided to save weight by switching to a smaller deep-cycle AGM. It's on order, haven't received it yet, but I believe it should be fine. Lithium batteries have a very low internal resistance in comparison to Lead-acid, so they will "pull" a huge amount of charge from the DC-DC converter. This is both not safe for the Lithium and not recommended for the DC-DC converter's lifespan.

So in short, my recommendation is not to touch the 12v battery life, but just add a Lifepo4 leisure battery and charge it up with solar and/or a proper B2B (battery to battery) charger. There are some one the market like the Victron Orion Tr Smart and the Renogy DC-DC.
Just make sure that you choose a model with the correct charging amperage for your leisure battery.
Also, keep on mind that most EV's onboard DC-DC converters are rated at 1400w-1800w.
You don't want to run them at full load, as this can cause them to overheat and prematurely fail. So do your math properly...

While in theory you could just connect a 12v inverter directly to the car's 12v battery, I wouldn't do this for prolonged times and wouldn't pull more than a few hundred watts...

I think that adding a leisure battery with separate charging is the best solution for a camper van. This will also allow you be more flexible if you need (add more capacity, etc...).

 

[Dan87]

Tell me more Dan! What happened? Actually (for fear for voiding the warrant) I have bought an EcoFlow Delta and plan to use that as the power source. I can charge it via the 12v Cigarette charger and via solar.

Hi there I have started multiple posts on here which I believe has been linked to on here . This forum for all its condescending arrogant nature 😂😂 has been really helpful as the people on here that’s are willing to help have a wealth of knowledge. My advice leave the van be and make an independent power system. But please read my other thread. I have the bluetti 70 and it’s by far the best power bank in its class with better battery technology

 

[baronmax]

Hi I also wondered about going for a single lithium battery in place of the standard lead acid and as a combined leisure battery but decided it was too 'cutting edge' for now with a relatively new vehicle. Something to do with the DC DC converter was also replaced under a recall (it worked fine but I did get the occasional 'traction battery' warning from time to time, which the recall seems to have fixed) - this prior to conversion when it was just a regular e-Expert van. Anyway a bit nervous of warranty. I've since had it converted with a more conventional caravan set up but with 2xLiFePo 100Ah batteries, a 3kW inverter, induction hob, 325W panel, and a current limited Sterling battery charger from the lead acid 12V/DC to DC converter. Probably didn't need 2x lithium leisure batteries and such a big panel but it seems to work well so far. I don't think electrical hook up will be needed at this time of year, (at least not for the fridge/lights etc) - but a hookup is still useful for a top up of the main battery via the granny charger... You can even charge the vehicle from the 2.5kW of the leisure batteries if really desperate, albeit I'd be careful - tried it for 15mins to see if it would work - was fine although the 12V wiring got warm as you might expect.... Very pleased with the conversion, range impact seems minor - negligible - eg 2.3miles/kWh = 170mile range going down the M6 from Stafford to Birmingham or 2.75miles/kWh on non-motorway = 206miles range.... IN SUMMER! And van is now very quiet after being insulated!

 

[Shiny]

Thanks for your comments @baronmax. Also worried about voiding warranty on new vehicle. Decided to simplify many aspects of the build and start off with an Ecoflow Delta and a 400W single solar panel. Still in the build phase but hoping to run fridge, lights, induction hobs straight from the portable power station. Keeping the van untouched but using the 12V cigarette sockets if required.

The main limitation of the power station is the 12V power. There are enough 240V USB A and C sockets. But only one 12V cigarette socket to use.

 

[easternguy]

I'm loving these findings .

I'm trying to work out the best deal for an off-grid setup with a similar power generator (either an ecoflow or a bluetti, still haven't decided).

Having the car turned on and constantly charge up the solar generator (either on a cloudy day or simply during evenings) with 100W is nice. This would provide at least an extra ~500Wh of energy for the long winter nights, on top of the typical 2-3kWh that a solar generator has (I'm thinking 5-6h usage). I'm a bit weary of keeping that load on the accessory socket for so long, but I'm guessing it should be fine, given that it's rated for 120W.

I'm actually wondering why Stellantis didn't add a 230V socket. It would've made things so much easier and it's a no-brainer design decision.

 

[Shiny]

I'm actually wondering why Stellantis didn't add a 230V socket. It would've made things so much easier and it's a no-brainer design decision.

I think it is available in some models, the people carriers (eg SpaceTourer), but not the Panel vans.

 

[Ross Macdougall]

The built-in inverter in my e-Traveller is only good for 150W I think and doesn't cope with a 120W heated blanket. My beast of a laptop has a 200W power supply, so no hope using that. However it's good for keeping a tablet and camera batteries charged.