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"using data collected by the chips inside every home charge unit fitted using the grant scheme and/or the smart meters which are being fitted to our homes."
:ROFLMAO:
Demand for dumb EVSEs up. Demand for smart meters down - not that I can see how any of the current ones could tell where the power being measured is destined. Horrendous 'big brother' aspects anyway.
 

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if eventually we’ll be using our cars as local battery storage and feeding back into the house/grid to aid balancing, then you can’t simply tax EV targeted electricity as you don’t know if it’ll be actually used to drive

simpler to use pay per mile or similar with ANPR on major roads
 

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LEAF N-TEC 62KW
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Large 'first registration' VED charge related to motor kW, then lower VED for the next 2 years and then annual mileage charge from the MOT data. Could even be collected electronically by the MOT centres.

This would avoid all the issues of electric useage and how to account for those generating their own from solar and wind.
 

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Ioniq 38kwh 2020
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Another method would be to tax all electricity use above a certain level. Ie every house gets 3000kWh for example at normal rates, then above that any additional units get taxed higher. Then EV owners who charge at home would effectively pay more, as would wasteful energy users.
I know water companies do a similar thing in the US, so basic essential water use is charged lightly, but start wasting water to water your grass etc then you pay through the nose.
It all gets complicated though for people with electrical or heat pump central heating.
But maybe combine it with gas use too (but then that could encourage oil use etc instead)
 
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Ioniq 38kwh 2020
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Large 'first registration' VED charge related to motor kW, then lower VED for the next 2 years and then annual mileage charge from the MOT data. Could even be collected electronically by the MOT centres.

This would avoid all the issues of electric useage and how to account for those generating their own from solar and wind.
The annual mileage at mot looks good but would lead to inevitable bill shock. But people wouldn't be able to avoid it as then they wouldn't receive their MOT certificate.
To replace fuel and ved with it though we are talking quite serious annual bills, even for average mileages. If I think that 5000 miles in my old ice cost about £1000 in fuel, and tax makes up 65% of that, I'd have a £650 bill at mot time. Add the lost VED of £300 too and it's quite a sum.
 

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and then annual mileage charge from the MOT data.
The annual mileage at mot looks good but would lead to inevitable bill shock. But people wouldn't be able to avoid it as then they wouldn't receive their MOT certificate.
What fantastic ideas.
But few cars change hands on the date of MoT ... :unsure:

Honestly, just think these barmy ideas through for a minute. Being 'fair' or reasonable doesn't cut it. 90% will evade or avoid taxation if they can, so any proposal needs to be armoured/bulletproof/bombproof/nukeproof. :)
 

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2018 Nissan Leaf 40kWh Tekna - love it
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Another method would be to tax all electricity use above a certain level. Ie every house gets 3000kWh for example at normal rates, then above that any additional units get taxed higher. Then EV owners who charge at home would effectively pay more, as would wasteful energy users.
I know water companies do a similar thing in the US, so basic essential water use is charged lightly, but start wasting water to water your grass etc then you pay through the nose.
It all gets complicated though for people with electrical or heat pump central heating.
But maybe combine it with gas use too (but then that could encourage oil use etc instead)
They are also trying to encourage more home electric heating so 3000kWh is not enough.
 

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2018 Nissan Leaf 40kWh Tekna - love it
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+1. They'll just expand that network of cameras. Better option than relying on smart boxes to be fitted into cars, and paying different rates for electricity won't work because everyone would use dumb chargers.
Yes, a combination of per mile charges on motorways and other trunk roads and congestion charges for town and city centres. Penalties to be upped for false plates to, "you just had your car confiscated but you can get it back from some godforsaken dingy compound for £1000". On a nice day, it might make a pleasant journey to use B roads only.
When I had my 3.3kW chargepoint replaced with a 7kW one, the Chargemaster guy said "you don't want a smart one do you?" with a bit of a wink, to which I replied "No thanks",
 

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Another method would be to tax all electricity use above a certain level. Ie every house gets 3000kWh for example at normal rates, then above that any additional units get taxed higher. Then EV owners who charge at home would effectively pay more, as would wasteful energy users.
I know water companies do a similar thing in the US, so basic essential water use is charged lightly, but start wasting water to water your grass etc then you pay through the nose.
It all gets complicated though for people with electrical or heat pump central heating.
But maybe combine it with gas use too (but then that could encourage oil use etc instead)
That could never work as it’s too simplistic for the mic of all-electric (or mostly electric) households that would be unfairly penalised when they are already paying some of the highest energy prices for heating and hot water. Plus how do you scale the allowance to take account of house size & occupancy etc. Any new revenue raising schemes needs to be both simple and equitable to avoid creating major inequality based on the fuel available to heat your home. In many cases some of the poorest households have poor quality electric heating or electric immersion hot water, and pay some of the highest costs on prepayment meters already, so you could easily penalise them
further with such an approach.

And to give you an idea of energy use for an all-electric household with a heat pump, I use between 12,000-13,000kWh annually, even with a 4kW solar PV install. Home charging an EV added another 6,000kW to this figure. My house was surveyed by the EST and was on the boundary between A and B, so could be classed as pretty efficient by the standards of most typical housing stock too.
 

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I am rather anti smart meter. The roll out was a debacle for which every one of us has paid for with a bit added on to our energy bills. First the (rather dumb) SMETS 1 and move on to SMETS2. And I don't think people are aware that they will be used a snooping devices to know how and when you are using your electricity eg- charging your car, boiling a kettle or indeed being away on holiday. Another words will be easy for the government to tax you for specific energy use in the future.
More worryingly a utility company can switch off your power from their HQ if you have been considered by them to have been in arrears or some other breach. No having to send somebody round to disconnect you. Wide open to potential abuse by the energy companies. And the Energy Ombudsman are pretty feckless in protecting your rights or standing up to them.
 

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Kia Soul EV 2020 64KWh
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I regularly see all these weird and wacky theories about how the tax regime will be adjusted to accommodate the loss of duty from fuel sales.

Smart meters that can miraculously tell what you are using the energy for. Behave.

Compulsory separate meters for car charging. Yeah, ok.

I am surprised at Electrifying suggesting such nonsense is even possible. How on earth for example does this super duper magic chip work out that the electricity you are consuming now to put in your home battery will be discharged later into your car. It's just bull. The kind of shit you read in the Daily Mail comments page from the naysayers who dream up reasons why they will never have an EV.

The only rational option for me is some form of road pricing based on ANPR cameras, possibly combined with the removal of the VED exemption for EVs. The only things left to decide are

a. The scope of which roads will incur a charge.

b. Whether the rates will be time of day dependent

c. Whether the the rates will be dependant on size of vehicle.

d. Whether the tech and the range of cameras is sufficiently comprehensive to measure mileage to charge per mile, or whether it will be a charge for use of the road network per day (I.e. one fee per day for every day your reg is picked up by ANPR using a chargeable road, similar to the London congestion charge). I suspect the latter.

e. Method of payment. I think everyone will have to set up an account, register their reg number and can set up a monthly DD for either a fixed amount or to clear the balance. Any car not registered to an account or registered to an account with an uncollected debt flag on it liable to be seized. Govt can apply any number of interesting and exciting exemptions as it sees fit, such as free miles for disabled persons.
 

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Kia Soul EV 2020 64KWh
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Another method would be to tax all electricity use above a certain level. Ie every house gets 3000kWh for example at normal rates, then above that any additional units get taxed higher. Then EV owners who charge at home would effectively pay more, as would wasteful energy users.
I know water companies do a similar thing in the US, so basic essential water use is charged lightly, but start wasting water to water your grass etc then you pay through the nose.
It all gets complicated though for people with electrical or heat pump central heating.
But maybe combine it with gas use too (but then that could encourage oil use etc instead)
What a horribly blunt instrument that would be.

How do you factor size of house, number of occupants, method of heating etc. So a middle class couple who are out at work all day using very little electricity might use less than their allowance and get a lot of their car charging free of tax. Meanwhile, the poor family on the bread line with old storage heaters get hammered. Cant see that working out politically.
 

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Whatever the solution is should not:-
involve charger manufacturers, CPOs, Smart metering, and definitely no government commissioned app.

So that leaves VED, road pricing or MOT mileage recording. VED & MOT charging / recording infrastructure already exists so would cost little to implement even if not perfect. Road pricing and NPR cameras is expensive and cannot cover minor roads. I could probably drive half way to Scotland entirely by county lanes. Also, how does the NPR system know where I came from? It can't assume from home.

There will always those who try to avoid the charges as there are now, so immediate confiscation, a large fine and a large fee to get their vehicle back. (as well as a large fine for anyone making plates without a licence).
 
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