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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have read much frustration about public charging be located poor or at the wrong power level, overpriced, broken or not accessible due to card requirements. Not to mention compatibility with different EVs! It is little wonder that local authorities and others get it wrong when rolling out EVA charging networks. Is it not time we put our heads together and come up with a easy to follow guide to the specs and accessible of charging at different location types. Slow charging at a service station clearly stupid. Slow charging at a hotel makes more sense.

So I am going to suggest we first agree and define 5 or 6 "types" of locations chargers should be installed (types could cover a group of locations examples with similar characteristics). Maybe this is done simply by typical or desired expected length of time parking is likely required by the user?

After the types of locations have been agreed, we can then discuss what charging specs etc suit each location type. My suggested starter for ten..

1) Motorway Services (journey type rest stop locations)
2) Town centre - short stay Carpark 1hr
3) Shopping centre or cinema complex or town centre 2hrs - typical stay
4) Long stay Carpark 4hrs plus
5) All day parking - office etc. (Similar to home charging but what public spec?
6) Residential Suburban Street

What other location types should we consider? Country pub, airport car parking?
 

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The challenge is are we saying now, or for in three or four years time (assuming any window for ROI on these things) or longer term? Are we talking for a LEAF an i3 Rex or a Tesla Model S?

There are so many variables and differences of opinion that this discussion does come up often but rarely draws much agreement or even general consensus.

For example what's useful for me in my leaf in 30 minutes may not be so good for a larger capacity LEAF in 3 years time, what's good for you watching a movie that last 120 minutes may be overkill for someone in a PHEV watching a short film. And that's not even looking beyond where we are now.

The only (loosely) agreed principle seems to be that en-route needs to be "rapid" destination can be "slow" or "fast" (whatever that means).

Perhaps the better way to look at this is where to people go in their cars and how long do they tend to "dwell" in each scenario. Then try to supply a charger, or range of chargers, to match or exceed today's charge requirements in that given scenario. You can only really do this with "big data" and you'll never please all the people all the time.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Yes everyone one is different but guidance works most of the time. The guidance should be good for today and 3 years time. Yes technology will more along and change overtime. But then we would update the guidance to say Rapids now also need to add the additional new new super super rapid rapid but keep the old Rapids for x years as current drivers use them. We should bottom down the guiding principles. Yes there are two many vechicles with different optimum charging characteristics but let's get the basics agreed to help guide the infrastructure so it gets used the most. PHEV has a back up solution but BEV does not. A PHEV world could be home charge only. Not ideal but possible. We can agree that charging infrastructure is more critical to BEV only. Hence why many PHEV are very polite and let BEV in to use a charger.

Back to the general guidance - first the type of location and typically dwell times. Then we can suggest charging standards and the pricing and access. Yes it will not be perfect for everyone all of the time but it might help take up and usage and usability.

Do we need different guidance for BEV and PHEV? Let's try the BEV guidance first and see if we need to adapt?

Location types please? Stay focused
 

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I think you have the locations depicted fairly well.
Logically, most EV's can charge at 3.3 to 7kw. So locations 3-6 should be 7kw posts (as are currently installed most places).
1 and 2 should be Rapid chargers. Ideally 100kw chargers in services, and the current 40kw versions in short stay car parks.

Maybe the 7kw posts could be upgraded to 11kw or even 22kw in 3-5 years time, but that is largely going to be dictated by the power availability at the sites.
 

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Rapid chargers in town centres seems a waste to me in most cases.

Charge rates also need to consider how far people are likely (or on average) to have driven as well as how long they'd be likely to stay.

For example local facilities (shops etc) may usually attract locals. So they may likely only have driven a handful of miles, yet they're in a location where they're only their for an hour shopping... But you don't need 30 minutes of rapid charging to recoup a short local drive.

On the other hand there may be tourist attractions that people drive a long way from and will be there for a limited time (a few hours max, for instance) so a "slow" charger seems right (destination) but won't get them back home...
 

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Rapid chargers in town centres seems a waste to me in most cases.

Charge rates also need to consider how far people are likely (or on average) to have driven as well as how long they'd be likely to stay.

For example local facilities (shops etc) may usually attract locals. So they may likely only have driven a handful of miles, yet they're in a location where they're only their for an hour shopping... But you don't need 30 minutes of rapid charging to recoup a short local drive.

On the other hand there may be tourist attractions that people drive a long way from and will be there for a limited time (a few hours max, for instance) so a "slow" charger seems right (destination) but won't get them back home...
In which case, why not just drop in a multi-speed charger everywhere ? It could support everything from 3kw to 50kw?
Hang it off a 100kw supply, the you can have a 50kw rapid and multiple 7kw chargers all running at once :D #genius
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Why pay for high speed infrastructure and tech when it may not be needed?
Because we need it now in the right locations. It like saying why switch to an EV today tomorrow maybe better. We need to be clear on what is needed to make EVs a success. Or should we give up and go back to ICE or have to have two cars?
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
In which case, why not just drop in a multi-speed charger everywhere ? It could support everything from 3kw to 50kw?
Hang it off a 100kw supply, the you can have a 50kw rapid and multiple 7kw chargers all running at once :D #genius
I am guessing cost is the barrier to the one.
 

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16 months of having an EV and an EV only for our family car and I've largely given up on "public" infrastructure and think it's probably a fool's errand to try and come up with anything close to a "one size fits all" plan for public (or private, or combined) charging infrastructure.

What's not changed is my view that Tesla are a prime example of "doing it right". EV manufacturers should be more than car people, they should try to offer the full solution, become profitable service providers as well as car salespeople. It's one of the view views about charging I have that's remained unshakably firm.

Every time this topic comes up people agree on many things, but far from everything. It's not as clear simple and easy as I think we'd like it to be, or like to believe it to be.

Even when we do have some great infrastructure (ecotricity electric highway) people disagree on who and how it should be used!

Don't get me wrong, I think it good to ask and discuss and listen to everyone's views, but this isn't a challenge that's easily summed up or solved.
 

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Future proofing.
The same could have been said about any new technology, phone lines, mobile telephones, etc
It could be argued that paying over the odds for what's "high speed" and good now, when there's improving technology and competing, emerging standards is almost the complete opposite of future-proofing, it's risking a great deal of expensive waste.
 

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It could be argued that paying over the odds for what's "high speed" and good now, when there's improving technology and competing, emerging standards is almost the complete opposite of future-proofing, it's risking a great deal of expensive waste.
Doesn't that just remind you of 56k dial up, isdn, Adsl, adsl2 Etc ?
We all paid good money for each of those when they were new !
 

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1) Motorway Services (journey type rest stop locations)
Rapid Charger(s)

2) Town centre - short stay Carpark 1hr
Nothing

3) Shopping centre or cinema complex or town centre 2hrs - typical stay
Nothing

4) Long stay Carpark 4hrs plus
Nothing

5) All day parking - office etc. (Similar to home charging but what public spec?
Depends if EVs are used for business. Charger type depends on usage.

6) Residential Suburban Street
Nothing
 

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I think attempting to agree consensus on types and locations of public chargers without considering the cost and method of payment is coming at this from the wrong direction. It's not visionary enough. We know the writing is on the wall that free public charging will soon be gone.

Instead why not first answer: what's the most attractive payment tariff and payment method to ensure that reliable public charging points are installed, with the operators receiving a fair return on their capital employed and cover their maintenance overhead?

I'll start by proposing that charging points should be like bank ATMs - each network should have the ability to offer charging and process payments to members of all the other networks.
 
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