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'68 Renault Zoe ZE40 R110
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi!
Newbie here, desperate to go electric, but with cost as my stumbling block.
I have a lump sum of money to buy a second-hand EV, and I'm looking at a second-hand ZOE 40 R110, or something that will 'future-proof' me for as long as possible - I'm the type who owns a car until it's no longer financially viable.
I currently have a VW Fox, 58 plate. She costs me £50 for a full tank, and, like most teenagers, is causing me some grief with costs. It's getting to the point where my meagre income won't be enough if she develops major faults. (She herself will keep going until the end of time, I'm sure, it's just my finances that will make it impossible to keep going with an ageing ICE.)
However even my shaky finances can afford to run/maintain an EV - that's their major USP, after all. It's just the acquisition of one.

Now given that my income is shaky, and I'm not sure what the future may hold, I therefore know I should brace myself for needing to use my cash lump sum as temporary income, rather than spending 14k [max] on an EV.

Urgh, I know what I realistically should do is - if my VW dies/is too expensive for me to repair, I should spend only a couple of k to buy a modern ICE that's only a couple of years old, with excellent fuel economy. That would keep me going until I can justify an EV.
But equally there's the risk - if I end up 3 years down the line with none of my lump sum remaining - that I'll never be able to afford an EV at all.

So I kind of feel that I should just 'go for it', this being the only time I can even entertain getting an EV. But Covid, the global economy, my income... it'd be daft, right?

Gah, I know full well what my answer is. I just don't want it to be the answer. <sad face>
 

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GOLF GTE PHEV
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Yep. Give it a year or so until there is a larger selection of used EVs to choose from, or look out for a private sale near you which you can test drive and check the battery condition.
Or consider a hybrid like the great runabout I traded in for my Leaf.
 

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You've not said how much you spend per week/month/year on fuel, only how much a tank costs. Have you looked at the TCO over say a 3-5 year period, or just the upfront costs?

Edit: To clarify since you've yet to respond, if you are spending £100 per month on fuel or £1,200 per year that is money you could put towards the new vehicle, which as you've said you are likely to run until it is no longer viable to do so.

Looking at something like a 28kWh version of the Ioniq, at ~£14k you could take a loan over 7 years, at about £190 per month (almost £2k interest at 3.8%) which would mean you actual spend would be £89 per month less the electricity costs, this needs calculating once we know your mileage per month.

7 years or 84 months of fuel at £100 is obviously £8,400 assuming nothing change with fuel prices or the distances you cover, plus the electricity cost which I am going to use as 5ppkWh and two full charge per week, so 62kWh inc. losses. £3.10 per week, £161.20 per year, or £1,128.40 over the 7 years. So the fuel saving is £8,400 less £1,128.40, for a total of £7,271.60 again assuming no changes at all.

Taking the previous calculations above, the £14k loan (no deposit etc. just a pure loan) you'd have spent ~£15,931 (inc interest) less the saved fuel costs, meaning a cost of £8,660 has went into the car and the interest payments, and the electricity cost for those 7 years as well.

How much would an Ioniq that is now 10 years old be worth, probably a few grand at least, even just for the recovered battery pack, but since you are likely to run it until it shows some big repair bills, you might end up having it for 15+ years assuming the range is sufficient which I assume it will be as you were looking at a Zoe.
 

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Zoe Devotee
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I would say if spending £50 a week on petrol is a push then buying an EV is well out of your budget. Ok so weekly running costs might be half but battery hire if you go down Zoe route and using up all your disposable lump sum on something that's only going to lose value and cost you to keep on the road I think you'll be bankrupt before you know it. You NEED to factor in that the Zoe is a money pit without having warranty in place, extending the warranty is @£300 a year. Scrimp here and it will cost you dear in future.

I'd say if your income is shaky stay with what you know until you've got a stable income then look at a new/nearly new EV. But not before then.
 

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2quidforhalfanhour
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I think in your position I would be looking at a small, economical ICE until EV's become more affordable.
5k would probably buy you a 4 year old Toyota Aygo.
Get the newest you can afford, make sure it's an early pre march 2017, so a 17 plate) and it will be zero tax, will have a year manufacturer warranty in place, and those things run on fresh air. Cheap to fix, loads of spare parts easily accessible, tyres are cheap.
Job done, and when you're ready, in 3 years time say, it won't have lost much money and will be an easy sell due to zero tax.(absolutely don't buy one registered after march 31 2017 as it will attract 150 a year or so tax, which will put anyone buying it off in future as they will just buy a pre 17).
 

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evezy referral code d6540
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Don’t know where you live, or if you’re ever likely to end up in London, but may be wise to check any ICE vehicle (if you end up going down that route for now) will be ULEZ exempt. The zone is being extended to the North and South Circulars in October 2021.
 
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'68 Renault Zoe ZE40 R110
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
You've not said how much you spend per week/month/year on fuel, only how much a tank costs. Have you looked at the TCO over say a 3-5 year period, or just the upfront costs?
What's your general daily mileage and how often do you do more than 100 miles in a day?
Mostly just local countryside driving. Annually it's no more than 10,000. Difficult to say, as I've just moved house from urban south, to East Anglia!, plus pandemic = really not sure what my mileage will be/should be...
Covid notwithstanding, a few round trips a year of ~300 miles, and once a week-ish I drive a round trip of 100 miles to my boyfriend (47 miles one way, no charging where he lives, other than a supermarket car park 15 minutes away).
That cancels out anything 22kwh or similar, I'd say.
As regards TCO, I haven't gone in depth yet; was just assuming ageing ICE repairs would equal out against minimal maintenance. The insurance for a 40kwh Zoe is only £100/year more expensive than at present (although I haven't shopped around properly).

I know it's got to be cheap ICE for another few years. I'm just so enthralled by EVs having test driven several at the Milton Keynes centre. The driving experience is so much fun! (and superficially, I've got a dodgy left leg, which means traffic jams on the clutch can get tiring, hence being super excited for EV. And yeah, normal automatics are rubbish.)

Hey ho, thanks all! :D
 

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Cheapest EVs to buy tend to be around £5000 mark, and shouldn't depreciate too fast from that level. But these may be out of warranty, and if something breaks inside an EV it can be very expensive to fix. I've just had a £1200 bill because my "granny" 13A plug-in charger short-circuited inside, and damaged the car. So anyone planning to run an old, out-of-warranty EV needs a decent lump sum of cash in hand, just in case. Regular maintenence costs will be lower than petrols as no oil-change & oil-filter & cam-belt stuff, but you still have suspension bushes, dampers, tyres, wipers to pay for.
So the best way to go with an EV for many is some kind of lease/PCP where the car is under a warranty, but these will be newer, more expensive cars. And after 3 years/whatever you end up handing the car back, or have to fork out another lump sum to pay it off & buy it, so you've paid a fair amount in interest.
There have been some amazing PCP deals in USA on Ioniqs, $99 per month + deposit, so whether we'll see anything quite that good over here I don't know! It;s possible Hyundai may be desperate to shift as many of these as possible, as they have a new range coming along, plus competition coming from VW ID.3 45 kWh model any month now, so there might be something available. But you have to do your sums, work out what your driving costs you in petrol, could you charge an EV at home and if so what would that cost (allow 10% more, as this is about what get's lost in the charging-up process), insurance, saving on Annual Tax, etc. Only then will you know if it will work for you.
But I tend to agree with the others here, stick with tried-and-tested petrol car. My wife loves her Citroen C1 (= Aygo) and can't be tempted out of it at any price!
 

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'68 Renault Zoe ZE40 R110
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
...could you charge an EV at home and if so what would that cost (allow 10% more, as this is about what get's lost in the charging-up process)...
Yep, driveway for 3 cars fitted very snugly. That's not a problem at all.

I think I need to do some serious sums on ICE vs EV so I have it definitely in black and white, and then wait a few years for the trickle-down of what are now the new EVs.
Who knows, by then, I may even be able to get a ZE50! 😁 #dreaming
 

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Just seen your driving pattern. Similar to mine, lots of local, plus occasional trips 100+ miles. East Anglia isn't noted for being well supplied with Rapid chargers, though more are going in now, so you could use zap-map to checkout if there are any on the longer routes you'ld be driving.

The other kind of car you could think about is a Phev, or plug-in hybrid. These give you a lot of the benefits of EV-ness, and the petrol takes care of longer trips. 2nd hand ones should be a lot cheaper than pure BEVs, as the battery is much smaller, usually around 9 kWh or good for 35 miles electric range before the petrol has to be used. You can flip these cars between the 2 modes, so drive through towns on electricity & burn petrol when in countryside. Phevs don't use, or need, Rapid chargers. They slow-charge at home/supermarkets/cinemas/high-streets, though I usually charge mine at home/relatives as that's so much cheaper/easier.
 

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Mostly just local countryside driving. Annually it's no more than 10,000. Difficult to say, as I've just moved house from urban south, to East Anglia!, plus pandemic = really not sure what my mileage will be/should be...
Covid notwithstanding, a few round trips a year of ~300 miles, and once a week-ish I drive a round trip of 100 miles to my boyfriend (47 miles one way, no charging where he lives, other than a supermarket car park 15 minutes away).
That cancels out anything 22kwh or similar, I'd say.
As regards TCO, I haven't gone in depth yet; was just assuming ageing ICE repairs would equal out against minimal maintenance. The insurance for a 40kwh Zoe is only £100/year more expensive than at present (although I haven't shopped around properly).

I know it's got to be cheap ICE for another few years. I'm just so enthralled by EVs having test driven several at the Milton Keynes centre. The driving experience is so much fun! (and superficially, I've got a dodgy left leg, which means traffic jams on the clutch can get tiring, hence being super excited for EV. And yeah, normal automatics are rubbish.)

Hey ho, thanks all! :D
I updated my post above (before you responded) with some figures for the longer term, you should take a look, and then see how it is vs. the reality of what you spend now.
 

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ZE40 R110
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Give DSG Morecambe a ring if you want a cheap Zoe, they have loads last time I was there plus the odd lonely Leaf and Ioniq.

Buying from a dealer can be more expensive but they can offer cheap finance / leasing deals and you can also get warranties so you may be able to afford one after all. They also deliver as well all over the country.

When I blew up the Diesel Fiesta I too had been holding out to get an EV when they became more affordable, but I had to either buy another cheap ICE for 5K and be stuck driving ICE for another 4 years or just take the plunge and got a Zoe 40 R110 instead. Its costing me £270 a month plus £30 electric = £300. The Diesel Fiesta worked out at £125 a month plus £140 on fuel = £265. So it doesn't break the bank and its cheaper to service and maintain plus I get to drive and own my first brand new car rather than driving around in a 5 year old car with the various issues / problems you always find on 2nd hand cars.
 

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evezy referral code d6540
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@Selina Freeman you could give a Zoe R110 ZE40 from ONTO a go to see if an EV would work for you. Monthly hire is only £339 (£50 off first month if you use my code 😉). This includes insurance and public charging. Only addition would be delivery/pick up charges of £50 and potentially a yearly car hire excess insurance policy to cover you against any damage charges.
 
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