[matt303]

Gradually over the last year my view of smartphones has changed from "Amazing tech" to "expensive but unfortunately necessary evil", being an EV driver I especially feel that I have no choice but to have one.

So the following questions:

Does anyone here use an EV for longish trips without having a smartphone?

Given you don't need a smartphone for making trips in an ICE does this reliance show that EV charging is over complex, fragmented in implementation and likely to be massively confusing to the average driver?

 

[arg]

Given you don't need a smartphone for making trips in an ICE does this reliance show that EV charging is over complex, fragmented in implementation and likely to be massively confusing to the average driver?

No. What you say may well be true, but it’s not directly connected with the smartphone issue.

The reliance on smartphones mainly shows that charging vendors assume there is substantial overlap between EV early adopters and smartphone users (which is probably true, but maybe not to the extent they think it is).

If there was a single, well designed smartphone app covering all networks then you wouldn’t say it was “over complex, fragmented in implementation and likely to be massively confusing to the average driver”. Those vices are not primarily caused by use of smartphones.

 

[Mark Cornwall]

Its a bonkers arrangement. Without a smartphone when your out you have no clue where chargers are, how much most of them will cost you, mostly unusable without a smartphone (or with!!) and some of them you don't even know what network run it. Despite some on here not wanting it when rapids are on every filling station forecourt with debit card payment for all to find easily the better. Hunting down rapids even with a smartphone is not fun.

 

[matt303]

So with the improvement in rapid chargers taking contactless are their any no smartphone EV drivers out there?

 

[Paul_Moxhay]

I really don't see that there can be any justification in not having a smart phone because of cost. You can get a brand new Nokia running Android for under £100. If you are really wanting to save money then get a used one for £50

I think in many cases where people cite cost as a factor in not getting a smart phone it is more likely because they don't want one... the cost isn't really going to be an issue.

EVs are the future... they will increasingly require other tech of the future. By the time all cars are EVs I reckon that the smart phone issue will not be an issue... everyone that can afford a car will have one.

 

[M C Williams]

I am one that didn't want a smartphone.

I had to get one so I could get OTA updates for my car. Oddly enough, it was when I was trying to purchase a phone from Amazon that I couldn't because my bank wanted to send a “one time password” to my phone, and I didn't have one.

So I bought a phone from eBay and paid with PayPal

 

[Jeremy Harris]

I'm another one that only bought a smart phone because the car needed it at the time. I virtually never turn it on, let alone use it, now, because I really haven't got any need for it. We don't get a signal here, and the cheap PAYG tariff I opted for doesn't allow calls or texts over wifi, and as everyone knows we have no signal and use the landline, it's the landline number that gets used all the time. I still have my old Nokia dumb phone, sits in the glovebox of the car for emergencies. Pretty sure I've not made a phone call using either mobile for at least a year, maybe longer.

It's staggering just how many organisations assume that mobile coverage is 100% and that everyone has a smart phone. We had to switch banks when we moved here, because our old bank, Santander, were only able to allow the use of online banking for those with a mobile signal. After a few months of trying to get them to use another 2FA method, and us getting fed up with one having to be online in the house, the other half a mile up the hill behind with a phone, to relay the authorisation code to the landline, we moved all our accounts. Our current bank uses a card reader for 2FA, seems pretty foolproof and is a great deal simpler than having to trek up the lane to receive an SMS.

 

[Paul_Moxhay]

Yes, it is another transition period similar to EVs. Not everyone has one. Not everyone wants one or perceives a need for one. Can't use it everywhere. Many people don't want to learn how to use it anyway. Infrastructure not yet fully developed.

But it is the way of the future. To everyone that doesn't want to be left in the past - get yourself a smart phone.

 

[Geoff_S]

I have a smart phone and I have an EV. And on the nearly 3 years of ownership it has never occurred to me that my smart phone is an essential component of EV ownership. In fact I have never experienced an incident requiring smart phone intervention.

Bur then again, I’ve never used a public charger.

 

[Jeremy Harris]

But it is the way of the future. To everyone that doesn't want to be left in the past - get yourself a smart phone.

I've got one, but having to find my reading glasses to use it, as well as be somewhere where it works, are a bit of a faff. TBH, the only really useful thing it's done over the past couple of years is run the NHS Covid app whenever we're out and about anywhere. I don't do FB or any of the other social media stuff, prefer to use a fairly large ebook reader for reading stuff (mainly because it only needs charging once every couple of months and has a big, clear, screen) , so apart from needing the phone when I had the Tesla (then it was mostly for making service/repair appointments) I'm hard pushed to think of any real benefit it gives. What is it I'm missing?

 

[Paul_Moxhay]

I am not going to try to convince anyone to get a smart phone if you don't feel you need or want one. But IMO it will become increasingly difficult going forward to do the things we all want to do without one. My mother-in-law has only just got one. She didn't want it and tbh didn't need it but banking and facetiming her grandkids in the USA convinced her to get one. So I got her a £70 one from a secondhand shop and that is when the trouble started... she really hasn't a clue and I spend hours (or what seems like hours!) explaining and showing her how to use it but I might as well be trying to teach the dog (not wanting to be rude about the dog you understand... I am sure he is quite intelligent ).

So, like EVs, they aren't for everyone right now

 

[Paul_Moxhay]

What is it I'm missing?

I wouldn't want to exist without my phone. I use it every hour of every day for something.

The camera is superb as I can record anything that happens that might be important later or that I might have to remember later. Similarly, instead of writing things on bits of paper that generally get lost I tap it into a note on the phone (Evernote) and it is then permanently there or I will use the voice recorder and make verbal notes.

I use a password app (RoboForm... used to use LastPass) so that all my passwords are safely stored in one place and encrypted to prevent them being stolen and also it means all my passwords are also available on the desktop/laptop instantly available. This has a knock on benefit in that it means using complex passwords is easier as I never have to remember them so my banking and other secure apps are much more secure. I can easily change them and record the change much more often... again good for security. In contrast, my mum has a book with all her passwords... insecure and she forgets to write them down or, in one case, lost the book in house move!

My diary is on Google and so is my wife's and we link them together so that we can both see each others diary in real time which makes making appointments easy. Moreover, again, back to not needing paper, if I make an appointment for anything (dentist, doctor etc) it goes into the diary at the time I make it guaranteeing it is properly recorded and also my wife can see immediately so no risk of double booking. The calendar also allows me to set up notifications and alarms so I am less likely to miss appointments. It makes planning future activities easier too.

Oh, BTW, it also makes telephone calls (!) and as we now have decided not to have a landline it is great because all our in and out calls are recorded (the numbers, not the conversations!!!).

I could go on and on... you'll be pleased that I won't... but it is the tool I use every day to make my life easier and yes, of course I can live without it but I certainly wouldn't want to.

Of course, all of this is only going to work where there is a data service available on the mobile network or wifi but that is getting better all the time and eventually it will just be everywhere no matter where you are.

 

[Rbrian]

I'm another one that only bought a smart phone because the car needed it at the time. I virtually never turn it on, let alone use it, now, because I really haven't got any need for it. We don't get a signal here, and the cheap PAYG tariff I opted for doesn't allow calls or texts over wifi, and as everyone knows we have no signal and use the landline, it's the landline number that gets used all the time. I still have my old Nokia dumb phone, sits in the glovebox of the car for emergencies. Pretty sure I've not made a phone call using either mobile for at least a year, maybe longer.

It's staggering just how many organisations assume that mobile coverage is 100% and that everyone has a smart phone. We had to switch banks when we moved here, because our old bank, Santander, were only able to allow the use of online banking for those with a mobile signal. After a few months of trying to get them to use another 2FA method, and us getting fed up with one having to be online in the house, the other half a mile up the hill behind with a phone, to relay the authorisation code to the landline, we moved all our accounts. Our current bank uses a card reader for 2FA, seems pretty foolproof and is a great deal simpler than having to trek up the lane to receive an SMS.

All the big networks, and many of the smaller MVNOs, support WiFi calling. That allows you to make and receive calls and texts anywhere you have WiFi, even if you have no mobile signal. On iPhone, Settings - Phone - WiFi calling. On Android, Phone app - 3 dots top right - Settings - WiFi calling. If you don't see the option then it isn't supported by your phone or network.

 

[Jeremy Harris]

I wouldn't want to exist without my phone. I use it every hour of every day for something.

The camera is superb as I can record anything that happens that might be important later or that I might have to remember later. Similarly, instead of writing things on bits of paper that generally get lost I tap it into a note on the phone (Evernote) and it is then permanently there or I will use the voice recorder and make verbal notes.

I use a password app (RoboForm... used to use LastPass) so that all my passwords are safely stored in one place and encrypted to prevent them being stolen and also it means all my passwords are also available on the desktop/laptop instantly available. This has a knock on benefit in that it means using complex passwords is easier as I never have to remember them so my banking and other secure apps are much more secure. I can easily change them and record the change much more often... again good for security. In contrast, my mum has a book with all her passwords... insecure and she forgets to write them down or, in one case, lost the book in house move!

My diary is on Google and so is my wife's and we link them together so that we can both see each others diary in real time which makes making appointments easy. Moreover, again, back to not needing paper, if I make an appointment for anything (dentist, doctor etc) it goes into the diary at the time I make it guaranteeing it is properly recorded and also my wife can see immediately so no risk of double booking. The calendar also allows me to set up notifications and alarms so I am less likely to miss appointments. It makes planning future activities easier too.

Oh, BTW, it also makes telephone calls (!) and as we now have decided not to have a landline it is great because all our in and out calls are recorded (the numbers, not the conversations!!!).

I could go on and on... you'll be pleased that I won't... but it is the tool I use every day to make my life easier and yes, of course I can live without it but I certainly wouldn't want to.

Of course, all of this is only going to work where there is a data service available on the mobile network or wifi but that is getting better all the time and eventually it will just be everywhere no matter where you are.

We cannot possible manage without a landline, though, because we have no mobile signal, and aren't like to get one. Most of the things you do with a phone we do with an iPad, desktop or laptop. Having been a Microsoft Office user for decades (used it at work), I still do everything in Office, so diary, notes, finance, pretty much everything. I'm used to using a proper camera, and that's got wifi, so it just sends photos direct to the NAS when within wifi range, so we can easily access them on any device.

99.99% of the phone calls I make or receive are at home, where the mobile doesn't work (so stays switched off). There is no prospect of us getting a mobile signal here in my lifetime, I think. We have a small community group that looked at setting up a microcell just before the pandemic, but the cost was very high, even though a farmer offered the use of his land free of charge. Same goes for several other villages around here, several have no signal and some have tried to get it sorted, but I don't think any have succeeded. Mobile coverage here is hampered by the area being dominated by EE, with all their masts working at the higher frequencies, so the signal just doesn't make it to the bottom of the valleys. The builders that came over here from Ireland to build our house couldn't believe that their phones didn't work, either here, or in the village a few miles away where they were staying. Until you've lived in an area where reception is patchy to non-existent I don't think it's easy to understand what it's like.

All the big networks, and many of the smaller MVNOs, support WiFi calling. That allows you to make and receive calls and texts anywhere you have WiFi, even if you have no mobile signal. On iPhone, Settings - Phone - WiFi calling. On Android, Phone app - 3 dots top right - Settings - WiFi calling. If you don't see the option then it isn't supported by your phone or network. View attachment 161696

I know, but only if you fork out for a plan that supports it. Because I so rarely have a need to use the mobile, I have a cheap PAYG SIM, and that works fine, costs next to nothing, but it doesn't support wifi calling. That's no bother at all, as the landline works perfectly for calls, and I can't see the point of keeping a mobile on, and keep charging it all the time, when the landline just works without any of that.

 

[Rbrian]

We cannot possible manage without a landline, though, because we have no mobile signal, and aren't like to get one. Most of the things you do with a phone we do with an iPad, desktop or laptop. Having been a Microsoft Office user for decades (used it at work), I still do everything in Office, so diary, notes, finance, pretty much everything. I'm used to using a proper camera, and that's got wifi, so it just sends photos direct to the NAS when within wifi range, so we can easily access them on any device.

99.99% of the phone calls I make or receive are at home, where the mobile doesn't work (so stays switched off). There is no prospect of us getting a mobile signal here in my lifetime, I think. We have a small community group that looked at setting up a microcell just before the pandemic, but the cost was very high, even though a farmer offered the use of his land free of charge. Same goes for several other villages around here, several have no signal and some have tried to get it sorted, but I don't think any have succeeded. Mobile coverage here is hampered by the area being dominated by EE, with all their masts working at the higher frequencies, so the signal just doesn't make it to the bottom of the valleys. The builders that came over here from Ireland to build our house couldn't believe that their phones didn't work, either here, or in the village a few miles away where they were staying. Until you've lived in an area where reception is patchy to non-existent I don't think it's easy to understand what it's like.




I know, but only if you fork out for a plan that supports it. Because I so rarely have a need to use the mobile, I have a cheap PAYG SIM, and that works fine, costs next to nothing, but it doesn't support wifi calling. That's no bother at all, as the landline works perfectly for calls, and I can't see the point of keeping a mobile on, and keep charging it all the time, when the landline just works without any of that.

I'd hardly call £8 forking out, but I use my phone all the time (I'm using it right now to type this!). I don't have a land-line, so I save a bit there, and calls are almost all free - using apps to video call friends, or the Skype credit that comes with 365 for premium calls, or the call allowance that comes with my 10gb 5g data.

 

[Jeremy Harris]

I'd hardly call £8 forking out, but I use my phone all the time (I'm using it right now to type this!). I don't have a land-line, so I save a bit there, and calls are almost all free - using apps to video call friends, or the Skype credit that comes with 365 for premium calls, or the call allowance that comes with my 10gb 5g data.

I think I paid a fiver as a one-off when I got the SIM, around three years ago, and may have since paid another fiver as a top up, so quite a bit cheaper, perhaps. I just don't make many calls, never use Skype or FB or whatever, and we get free calls on the landline, anyway. As already mentioned, we have to have the landline, as there's no way of getting a phone service here without it (although it's now almost VOIP, as it's FTTC). It's about what best suits the circumstances, both personal and those forced upon us by the lack of connectivity.

 

[freddym]

Gradually over the last year my view of smartphones has changed from "Amazing tech" to "expensive but unfortunately necessary evil", being an EV driver I especially feel that I have no choice but to have one.

So the following questions:

Does anyone here use an EV for longish trips without having a smartphone?

Given you don't need a smartphone for making trips in an ICE does this reliance show that EV charging is over complex, fragmented in implementation and likely to be massively confusing to the average driver?

Where do you live.
Where do you drive.
What car do you drive.
Eg
I live in Portobello.
I drove to Musselborough every day.
I don't drive anywhere else.
I own a Leaf40.
I dont own a smart phone.

 

[javadude]

It might be easier to drive a Tesla without a smart phone than other makes possibly. I use my smart phone as a key, for 2FA on my tesla account and lots of app features like scheduling a charge, switching on the climate control remotely, checking the sentry cameras etc but none of that is mandatory. The plug and go nature of the chargers and the inclusion of super-chargers on the sat nav mean that you aren't going to need a smart phone as much for charging, unless you need to charge on public chargers too.

 

[Eclectic]

so apart from needing the phone when I had the Tesla (then it was mostly for making service/repair appointments) I'm hard pushed to think of any real benefit it gives. What is it I'm missing?

Shazam! I hate it when I can't remember who's singing that song

 

[Jeremy Harris]

It might be easier to drive a Tesla without a smart phone than other makes possibly. I use my smart phone as a key, for 2FA on my tesla account and lots of app features like scheduling a charge, switching on the climate control remotely, checking the sentry cameras etc but none of that is mandatory. The plug and go nature of the chargers and the inclusion of super-chargers on the sat nav mean that you aren't going to need a smart phone as much for charging, unless you need to charge on public chargers too.

TBH, knowing we didn't have a signal, and finding out after I'd ordered the Tesla that it won't wake up from the app unless it can receive an SMS first, I bought a fob on the day I collected my Model 3. To use the app at home I needed to first unlock the car with the fob, then lock it again, to wake it up, then the app would work, as waking it up causes the car to connect to wifi. Pity Tesla chose to use an SMS to wake the car up, it would have been a lot easier for me if it could wake up from wifi, but my guess is that using an SMS uses less power than keeping the wifi connection up 24/7.